Say good bye to your warranty when you do that. The powertrain will be your baby after you make that move. GM will thank you for that. That will be one less transmission that they have to repair. In other words, not a smart move. It’s your call!

 

I'm not saying I am I'm wondering if anyone has looked Into it. Actually they'd have to prove that it's the wrong fluid theirs federal laws against the oems from making it that way. Yes would they give you the run around and make it a pia probably. Still they cant void warranty if it meets or exceeds the OEM requirements.

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Law states that an owner of a vehicle which also includes on a broader term, farm tractors, lawn mowers, utility vehicles, etc., can use a lubricant of their choice as long as the lubricant meets the manufacturer's specifications or exceeds those specifications. If GM recommends a semi-synthetic engine oil and we use a full synthetic engine oil that exceeds specifications, no problem. The transmission fiasco on the other hand is a whole different story as they have changed the oil requirements I believe three times. Technically if you have a lubricant that meets or exceeds the specifications of the lubricant listed in your owner manual, legally you should be safe as GM is not mailing updates to our manuals, but I would not gamble on it. I would want a spec sheet from Amsoil showing that it meets or exceeds GM's specification for Dexron VI for example that is listed on page 375 in my 2017's manual. We all know that specific fluid is no longer what GM wants us to use per the bulletin, but they have not updated their pre-existing manuals. What does the 2018 and 2019 manuals show? I am guessing a brand new 2019 has the Dexron VI in the book yet?

 

We all know that specific fluid is no longer what GM wants us to use per the bulletin, but they have not updated their pre-existing manuals. What does the 2018 and 2019 manuals show? I am guessing a brand new 2019 has the Dexron VI in the book yet?

First I've heard of GM changing tranny fluid requirements. I have a 2016 with 52k miles, original fluid. Was anything sent out saying we needed to bring the trucks in for a fluid change? I didn't get one. I was considering going to Amsoil as well. Guess I have some homework.

 

Amsoil, Shamsoil. (tongue firmly planted)
Just use this and forget about it:
https://www.lubegard.com/products/atf/
It works on everything!

OK, Not totally serious here, but I was under the impression that whether or not a TC had to be replaced depended on how much damage was done before a flush could be done. If I am wrong and the problem was with the Dexron VI ATF, I think most all trans units would be affected. Remember your user manuals specify the Dexron VI, not the Mobil1. The triple flush procedure called for the flushes to be done with Dexron VI. So why was Mobil1 specified after the flushed and not the Dexron VI? I don't know. But the units that never had a chatter issue are happy with Dexron VI ATF.
So I doubt the fault is with the OE fluid.
Having said all that, in my very uneducated opinion, I think as long as your seals won't be destroyed, the detergents are there and the friction properties are met, fluid is fluid. Changing anything on a schedule is better than leaving the best unchanged for the lifespan.


Back to the Lube Gard, they actually do have something in there that abates TC chatter across a wide range of vehicles. How bad can it be? But I have to second the use of only OE fluids for the duration of the warranty.
As for me, I chose to abate any chatter issue by doing a series of fluid swaps with Mobil1. I have not had any chatter although 30% of my fluid is still Dexron.

 

I have always used AMSOIL products in my vehicles. Its possible it could fix the issue since GM went to Mobil for the last TSB Flush and now the latest fix is a newer version of Mobil1 ATF (blue label). They did not used GM DEXRON ATF Fluid for the fix.
I had both done to my truck, 1st the TSB that required TC replaced and flush with Mobil1 ATF. Shudder came back so just had latest and 2nd fix done which is flush and newer Mobile1 ATF fluid installed. It is a wait and see approach for latest fix.

 

2018 Chevy colorado with an 8L45. I had the dealer flush mine to the new Mobil 1 stuff because it had issues at 45k. Now at 60,000 miles i went to a transmission shop and we flushed the tranny with the amsoil blue label low viscosity atf and now it shifts like butter!! No more of that slamming into gear when you put in in drive or reverse, and no more shuttering on the freeway. I bought 4 gallons and used it all with just enough left over to change the transfer case.

 

Again, root problem is that the trans fluid is absorbing moisture. So yes, theoretically another, less hygroscopic, fluid could be better. However, getting the existing moisture out is just as important, which is why the triple flush and the special machine for the flush and the correct operation of said machine is critical.

 

Again, root problem is that the trans fluid is absorbing moisture.

This is news to me. I thought I had read everything. Could you please substantiate this with some factoids?

 

I switched to Amsoil signature series atf at 1400 miles on my 2016. Before I did I noticed a slight grinding when going into gear at a stop. I don't know if it was from the factory oil or all the dirt and debris from the initial break in. The pan had allot in it and the filter felt heavy. Now it goes into gear smooth and I haven't had any other issues.

 

Maybe Im old fashioned in my thinking...but you never ever mixed Dexron with Mercon. So Id definitely be leery of any company making a claim that it works with both.

 

AMSOIL is not a DEXRON -VI fluid.
Instead of saying it is DEXRON approved or licensed they state: "Recommended for vehicles requiring GM DEXRON® VI, Ford MERCON® LV and SP, Honda DW-1, Nissan Matic-S and Toyota WS fluid specifications."
I interpret this as.... we don't meet the requirements of any of these, but this is a product we sell and recommend you should use instead of what your manufacturer requires ... and by stating it this way, I'm going to try to fool you into thinking we do meet the requirements..... (this is also one of the many reasons I feel AMSOIL marketing is a total fraud)

Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is not a DEXRON-VI fluid and does not even mention DEXRON-VI in its product data sheet. (Mobil DEXRON-VI ATF is a DEXRON-VI approved fluid)

Mobil 1 Synthetic LV ATF HP is approved and licensed by General Motors as a DEXRON-HP ATF. It meets the requirements of the 8 speed transmission. (Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF does not meet the DEXRON-HP requirements)

 

AMSOIL is not a DEXRON -VI fluid.
Instead of saying it is DEXRON approved or licensed they state: "Recommended for vehicles requiring GM DEXRON® VI, Ford MERCON® LV and SP, Honda DW-1, Nissan Matic-S and Toyota WS fluid specifications."
I interpret this as.... we don't meet the requirements of any of these, but this is a product we sell and recommend you should use instead of what your manufacturer requires ... and by stating it this way, I'm going to try to fool you into thinking we do meet the requirements..... (this is also one of the many reasons I feel AMSOIL marketing is a total fraud)

Amsoil can't say its Dexron "approved" unless the company, who make the Dexron product, actually approves it. Dexron would never approve a competitors lubricating fluid. At the bottom of Amsoil product page is a Typical Technical Properties Table. Amsoil publishes ASTM results for their product. Same tests are performed on competitors products. Very easy to compare.

 

I have a 6 qt case of black label Mobil1 LV ATF HP for sale. PM me any offers.

 

Trade for Amsoil?


:grin2:

 

We’ll see. For some that have had the new flush and fluid, it does not seem that it has completely eliminated the shudder. Hope it does.

 

Doesnt mean it was done correctly either. Not arguing just making observations not all dealerships are equal. They can make or break an ownership.

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Amsoil sucks in my opinion. Well at least in motorcycle engines. I put it in two of my motorcycles and they both started leaking oil! A fellow on the motorcycle forum that I frequent, said it's because of the added detergents they put in it...? Well if that's the case I don't want the added detergents...

 

What you’re talking about is the old wives tale that “synthetic oil causes leaks.” Conventional oil was good as sludging up, turning crusty, and plugging leaks in gaskets. If you switched to synthetic it would clean out the old, crusty oil and expose the gasket issues that already existed but were being hidden by gunk.


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Amsoil "Dominator" two stroke oil totally rocks in two stroke dirt bikes. This attached photos are of my KTM 300's head and piston after 240 hours of off road abuse. The specified change interval is 80 hours under racing conditions, but I trail ride, sometimes race, and am basically cruel and heartless - it was way overdue. Despite that, the ring end gap was still in spec, which is a testament to the oil and my anal nature about air filter maintenance on my dirt bikes :smile:

The parts shown in the photos look unbelievably good. The challenge with 2 stroke engines is to lube them well without gumming them up with carbon. Amsoil seems to have figured out that balance really well, as shown in the photos. I did not clean the head - that is how it came off the bike. Reports from 4 stroke dirt bike riders running Amsoil in their bikes are similar - parts look really good.

The 2nd pic of the piston shows the exhaust side, usually one sees blow by there after awhile, this one shows none, which is unreal. My quick and dirty method of checking a two stroke dirt bike engine's health is to pull the expansion chamber and look at the piston skirt. It it is clean, I run it some more :laugh: The streaks on the sides of the piston are from the transfer ports.

I am a believer, and have no doubt Amsoil engine oil is among the best one can buy. I have no experience with Amsoil ATF, but in high performance motorcycles, which are very tough on their lube, Amsoil performs really well. I am not about to take a car engine apart, but dirt bikes are a pretty easy way to see how well an oil works, as they do require periodic maintenance and are not so difficult to disassemble.

 

Funny you should post this as I just replaced mine yesterday with Amsoil ATL. It was like I swapped out the transmission, shifts are waaay smoother, no more clunk. Also no more clunk on the downshift from 2nd to 1st. Also completely eliminated the slight shudder I would occasionally get on lock up. Keep in mind I have a 6 speed.

 

The TCC can overheat and glaze if you ride with the shudder too long, the TCC is literally slipping more than intended and then line pressure is bumped up to get it to grab, and then as soon as it grabs, it returns the pressure to normal, then it slips, then it increases line pressure.... this is what the shudder is. Once you glaze the TCC, maybe it will work again once the fluid is flushed, maybe it wont.

 

This sounds very plausible, but, if this was it why couldn't they just leave the pressure up until the next unlock? Or do you mean it's modulated by design and the extra slippery clutch material just goofes up the process?

Where did you get this info?

 

Yeah, I wouldn't hesitate one instant to use Amsoil ATF in this box, it's good stuff. Mine is due...4 years old and 32K miles. Flush and fill, change the filter.

 

Here's a sample from a log:

Accelerator Position D (SAE) 37.3 %
Commanded Throttle Actuator (SAE) 39.6 %
Engine RPM (SAE) 2,254 rpm
Trans Current Gear 6
TCC Line Pressure 35 psi
TCC Slip 1.6 rpm
TCC Desired Slip 10.1 rpm
Trans Turbine RPM 2,253.1 rpm
Trans Output Shaft RPM 1,777.1 rpm
Trans Input Shaft RPM 2,251.0 rpm
Trans Slip RPM 475.3 rpm
Trans Engine Torque 168 lb·ft
Clutch Pedal Pos 0.0 %

 

and here's a sample from a shudder event:

Accelerator Position D (SAE) 36.9 %
Commanded Throttle Actuator (SAE) 39.6 %
Engine RPM (SAE) 1,911 rpm
Trans Current Gear 8
TCC Line Pressure 34 psi
TCC Slip 276.9 rpm
TCC Desired Slip 14.8 rpm
Trans Turbine RPM 1,641.1 rpm
Trans Output Shaft RPM 2,520.8 rpm
Trans Input Shaft RPM 1,642.6 rpm
Trans Slip RPM -1.8 rpm
Trans Engine Torque 192 lb·ft
Clutch Pedal Pos 0.0 %

 

and here is less than a second later:

Accelerator Position D (SAE) 38.8 %
Commanded Throttle Actuator (SAE) 41.2 %
Engine RPM (SAE) 1,778 rpm
Trans Current Gear 8
TCC Line Pressure 44 psi
TCC Slip 114.5 rpm
TCC Desired Slip 12.5 rpm
Trans Turbine RPM 1,669.6 rpm
Trans Output Shaft RPM 2,563.6 rpm
Trans Input Shaft RPM 1,671.4 rpm
Trans Slip RPM -1.1 rpm
Trans Engine Torque 242 lb·ft
Clutch Pedal Pos 0.0 %

and another few milliseconds later:

Accelerator Position D (SAE) 38.8 %
Commanded Throttle Actuator (SAE) 40.4 %
Engine RPM (SAE) 1,688 rpm
Trans Current Gear 8
TCC Line Pressure 44 psi
TCC Slip 0.3 rpm
TCC Desired Slip 13.0 rpm
Trans Turbine RPM 1,681.9 rpm
Trans Output Shaft RPM 2,583.6 rpm
Trans Input Shaft RPM 1,681.9 rpm
Trans Slip RPM -2.6 rpm
Trans Engine Torque 231 lb·ft
Clutch Pedal Pos 0.0 %

 

Honestly to me it looks like it the pressure slowed the slip, possibly even normal. Of course you would have to have a bunch more data than this and preferably in a graph form to try and figure it out.

But I really don't know.

Another question, if it's the moisture (water) in the fluid that causes it, where the hell did it come from? How did it get in there? We don't even have a dipstick. Is the fluid supposedly defective with moisture? Bad from Mobil oil? Doesn't make sense......

 

It kept bumping the line pressure up, honestly rather slowly, until finally that tcc slip started getting back in line. I think there's just a limit to its learning range and once the fluid degrades beyond a certain point, it wont 'learn' to hold pressure beyond some specific upper bound for a given quantity of torque, it's all very crazy how it's related.

Quite a bit of it isn't visible to us in HPT, we don't actually know how the algorithm relating to TCC pressure works. 20 years ago we would have a GM engineer on the forum who would happily tell us, but those days are gone in favor of endless non-disclosure agreements.

Also the HPT forums kinda suck, nobody shares info any more, it's all a giant crap shoot. Still at least they simply don't make content as opposed to 20 new 'what lift should I get on my commuter truck' or 'what useless tough looking metal crap should I bolt on to my commuter truck' or 'O how cool I can pay 45k over 84 months and finance all that metal crap on an oem truck' threads a day ;-)

When did I become a bitter old man.

 

It kept bumping the line pressure up, honestly rather slowly, until finally that tcc slip started getting back in line. I think there's just a limit to its learning range and once the fluid degrades beyond a certain point, it wont 'learn' to hold pressure beyond some specific upper bound for a given quantity of torque, it's all very crazy how it's related.

Quite a bit of it isn't visible to us in HPT, we don't actually know how the algorithm relating to TCC pressure works. 20 years ago we would have a GM engineer on the forum who would happily tell us, but those days are gone in favor of endless non-disclosure agreements.

Also the HPT forums kinda suck, nobody shares info any more, it's all a giant crap shoot. Still at least they simply don't make content as opposed to 20 new 'what lift should I get on my commuter truck' or 'what useless tough looking metal crap should I bolt on to my commuter truck' or 'O how cool I can pay 45k over 84 months and finance all that metal crap on an oem truck' threads a day ;-)

When did I become a bitter old man.

Careful . . . someone might use the "cranky old man" label. :wink2:
Thanks for taking the time to show the factual operation of these events.

What you said early about the TCC *not* being simply on/off or engaged or in slip mode coincides with some commentary I read on another forum. I was aware that the TCC is not like the earlier "lock up" torque converters from 25 or 30 years ago or so since I worked in the automotive ECM/PCM industry.
But as to the exact particulars. . well your parameter lists show exactly what is happening and allowed. The thing that remains curious to me is the latest *moisture" related cause GM is saying causes the shudder. It still sounds like a design issue of some sort especially since the 10 speed does not seem to suffer this or at least not as much. Maybe it uses a different TCC design or programming for slip?
All this wizardry is getting a bit much when it is put out in the market and yet does not seem ready for Prime Time . . . ::chevy::


Here is a cut and past from another forum . . note the reference to the *variable* solenoid operation.

" - The GM 8L45 Hydramatic Transmission is part of the powertrain in the Cadillac CT6, CTS, ATS, Chevrolet Camaro and perhaps more vehicles under a different name. This questionable feat of backwards design and engineering was accomplished with variable force solenoid technology, speed sensors and a processor executing hundreds of calculations and commands every 6.25 milliseconds. Clearly, this is not often enough, as evidenced by the ride experience inflicted on the driver and passengers when the thing desperately hunts for the proper gear and any gear will do … to lurch forward. With all that technology it performs far worse than the bands and torque converters of that our grandparents enjoyed in the 1960’s and later. In 2016, General Motors was simply not ready to evolve past the 6 speed transmission but that didn’t stop it from going ahead and cursing entire fleets of its new vehicles with the crudest powertrain component in its history. - "

 

I believe the equipment (transmissions) done outsmarted the engineers that designed it, or tried to, and now they do not know what to do.

 

Maybe, but I think they try to make it so smooth so whiny azz customers don't complain. Now it backfired...

Remember the good ol' days when a TC locked and you knew it? lol

>

 

Off topic I suppose, but this is a very interesting video. The Koeniugsegg supercar has 1,400 HP from it's IC engine and more power from it's electric motors. It goes 0-60 in 2.8 seconds, and tops out at around 250 mph with only a single gear ratio - no gears, hybrid drive with gas and electric power, and the world's trickest torque converter. I wonder if it ever has shudder issues :laugh:

Saw this car on Jay Leno's garage, with the same engineer. The discussion of the car's unique torque converter that allows no gears at all to be used starts around 2 minutes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=glf_k4qGBAA

 

I'm not stamped "mechanic" but Ive been able to fix everything Ive owned. Rebuilt an engine, tranny, and transfer case too. Didnt have to pay thousands to be "certified" to get the job done.

 

Sure, but that's missing the point.

Offer those services to others in exchange for money and see how many customers you get if you have no certifications. Customers have no guarantee other than your word that you can do the job and do it right vs an ASE certified tech that actually has credentials to show they're qualified to do the work.

See the difference?

 

https://youtu.be/cf4C9ssuPjE

 

I do have to wonder though on what their training entails. I recently had a my canyon looked at for a transmission problem and was told that a clunk and ridiculously hard shift only on the 3-4 gear upshift was a problem with the rear diff because the transmission had no trouble codes. really now? needless to say I left after that.

I cant speak for the Amsoil transmission fluid being used in a 8L45e, Never used it. But many friends and family along with me use their motor oil with out any problems. My dads Harley actually runs quite a bit cooler on it. Amsoil stance on certifications is that they don't want to pay the royalties to every manufacture that their product meets specs on, Yes most company's ( and vehicle manufacturers) require you to pay them on a regular basis when having that seal of approval. Amsoil is not a massive company such as Exxon Mobil, they are the little guy. That being said they do have the approval of some companies, Amsoil XL motor oil does have the API's seal of approval and vw504, 507 on the oil I use to whoever said they don't have approval from anyone. Also I am not a fan of some of their advertising setups and they have made some mistakes on stuff, but so has other oil manufactures too.

 

I do have to wonder though on what their training entails. I recently had a my canyon looked at for a transmission problem and was told that a clunk and ridiculously hard shift only on the 3-4 gear upshift was a problem with the rear diff because the transmission had no trouble codes. really now? needless to say I left after that.

Many techs these days are glorified button-pushers that only do what the computer tells them to do and they're trained on how to replace parts, not diagnose problems. So when the computer tells them nothing is wrong they have nothing to fall back on except for making something up or escalating to a GM engineer to get input on the next step(s) to take. Very annoying. Back when I was a tech we used computers as tools but not as the final source of truth. If what the computer said didn't jive with what was happening then we had to resort to actual critical thinking and troubleshooting.

I cant speak for the Amsoil transmission fluid being used in a 8L45e, Never used it. But many friends and family along with me use their motor oil with out any problems. My dads Harley actually runs quite a bit cooler on it. Amsoil stance on certifications is that they don't want to pay the royalties to every manufacture that their product meets specs on, Yes most company's ( and vehicle manufacturers) require you to pay them on a regular basis when having that seal of approval. Amsoil is not a massive company such as Exxon Mobil, they are the little guy. That being said they do have the approval of some companies, Amsoil XL motor oil does have the API's seal of approval and vw504, 507 on the oil I use to whoever said they don't have approval from anyone. Also I am not a fan of some of their advertising setups and they have made some mistakes on stuff, but so has other oil manufactures too.

Keep in mind that most/all manufacturers also provide a non-mfr-specific spec that can be used as an alternative. The problem with diesel oils is that ACEA and API specs listed on the bottles are not certifications. For gas oils, oil companies can have their oil API certified to meet the listed API ratings, but again that is something AMSoil doesn't want to do for most of their oils. They do have some API certified gasoline oils but AMSoil has a lower oil change interval for them (See their "XL" line of oils).

Bottomline is that the vast majority of their lubes don't undergo any mfr-specific testing, lack certifications, and the ratings on the bottles are simply what they claim to meet. They provide no actual documentation to prove the products meet the listed specs. A lot of consumers don't understand that ratings are not certifications and trust that if a product says it meets X then it meets X, but there's no guarantee.

If consumers are aware of this and still want to use their products then that's fine, on the other hand I feel as though AMSoil does shady marketing to take advantage of consumer ignorance.

AMSoil may make some great products, but I can't put my faith in them for the above reasons and I refuse to give them a cent in principle due to how the products are marketed and misrepresented by many AMSoil sales reps.

I'll leave it at that, I'm not out to change anyone's mind about the products, just trying to shed some light on some of the darker aspects of what AMSoil does (or doesn't do).

 

Amsoil got its fame in motorcycle oil, mainly the 20W-50 oil, however the Amsoil name does not carry as much weight in the area of ATF. What happens, is people go for the name Amsoil and let that overshadow the oil specifications. Just my opinion.