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This is what is known as a joke, made for the purposes of hyperbole. The point here is, those gentlemen in 1942 were the absolute experts in their field. That locomotive was (while flawed) a legitimate approach to being the ne plus ultra of steam design in 1942. The point again, here, is that all of this was a lost cause. Diesel trains took over the market shortly after this photo and this locomotive went nowhere.

I am, figuratively, the modern version of these gentlemen. I am an expert in a field that is coming to the end.
But steam tech didn't die off. Ironically, many BEV's are steam powered because that's still the primary way for converting heat into electricity.
 
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But steam tech didn't die off. Ironically, many BEV's are steam powered because that's styill the primary way for converting to electricity
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. A steam locomotive is a normal cycle Rankine engine. No battery electric vehicle is a Rankine cycle engine by any definition at all. There's no tie up in any way, shape, or form.
 

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Right. None of those options occurred to any of us. Geez, I should probably tell my management that we should look at some of these other options because none of them were ever investigated before.
Maybe this will make you feel better.
399546
 

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That is kind of funny.

Naw, pretty funny. Anyway. I bought a 2021 Colorado diesel so I could get one while I can. Once I retire my wife will stop driving my C300 company car and she wants a BEV for her commute. So I'll have my diesel pickup to play with. I'm a good wrench plus I have detailed background, I should be able to keep it running 20 years. Call it my fun project.
 

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I think a Wrightspeed turbine-electric powertrain would compete on performance, but it might not compete on cost.
 

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GM has invested heavily in fuel cell
The government, media, and subsequently the auto manufacturers are gung ho on electric vehicles. So much so they forgot about looking at other alternatives like bio-diesel and hydrogen fuel cels. Maybe our politicians are fully invested in Tesla or getting kickbacks from the battery manufacturers.
Not so fast, GM has invested heavily in hydrogen fuel cells over the last 20 years and they continue to do so, why do you think GM is interested in the Nikola deal, has nothing to do with producing the badger truck, it's about producing the commercial hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (this is simply my opinion, I do not have an insider information on this), GM has also made hydrogen fuel cell vehicles for the US military. Both Honda and Toyota have invested heavily in hydrogen fuel cells, Toyota may be the only one offering one to CA consumers, but all three of those manufacturers believe commercial vehicles will be hydrogen fuel cells and not strict bevs. Mercedes and VW has dumped a lot of money in hydrogen fuel cells too. The Electric gung ho, imo is because Tesla has been semi-successful and and the best marketing ever if you use stock price as a result of that. Deep investments in hydrogen fuel cells don't increase your stock price today, but they believe electric vehicles will, hence the gung ho. Hydrogen Fuel Cell is most likely the answer to heavy machinery and heavy commercial vehicles, remember all the news about Electric Big Rigs...where did that go? Battery technology is the limitation for electric vehicles, the current tech is only good for consumer grade vehicles to transport people. What will change the world is when hard working consumer vehicles and commercial vehicles don't have to put off-line for long ass charging. The Hummer EV may be great off-road, but how the hell will I be able to charge one when I'm camping in a National Forest?
 

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The Hummer EV may be great off-road, but how the hell will I be able to charge one when I'm camping in a National Forest?
You won't be able to refuel with hydrogen in a National Forest either, and you can't carry extra in a jerry can. It's no different. Actually, the BEV is better because at least you can bring along a generator and recharge batteries.

Most car and truck makers continue to look at hydrogen as a hedge against long term adaptation of BEVs, true enough. But I think the BEV will ultimately prove out. Hydrogen itself just sucks so much as a road fuel. There's no existing infrastructure, it is difficult to transport, and it is difficult and expensive to store in quantity on the vehicle. Basically every problem of BEVs (batteries are expensive, batteries are heavy) will not be solved with hydrogen (fuel tanks are expensive, fuel tanks are heavy).

On top of that, fuel cells kind of suck too. They are more efficient than a diesel engine sure (perhaps 55% BTE vs. 48% BTE) but all of the waste heat from the cell is pretty low temperature and all of it is in coolant, instead of hot exhaust. Cooling fuel cells requires large radiators with lots of airflow. This invites along a ton of drag.

OTOH, Lexus already has the perfect grills designed for fuel cell cars. :)
 

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You won't be able to refuel with hydrogen in a National Forest either, and you can't carry extra in a jerry can. It's no different. Actually, the BEV is better because at least you can bring along a generator and recharge batteries.

Most car and truck makers continue to look at hydrogen as a hedge against long term adaptation of BEVs, true enough. But I think the BEV will ultimately prove out. Hydrogen itself just sucks so much as a road fuel. There's no existing infrastructure, it is difficult to transport, and it is difficult and expensive to store in quantity on the vehicle. Basically every problem of BEVs (batteries are expensive, batteries are heavy) will not be solved with hydrogen (fuel tanks are expensive, fuel tanks are heavy).

On top of that, fuel cells kind of suck too. They are more efficient than a diesel engine sure (perhaps 55% BTE vs. 48% BTE) but all of the waste heat from the cell is pretty low temperature and all of it is in coolant, instead of hot exhaust. Cooling fuel cells requires large radiators with lots of airflow. This invites along a ton of drag.

OTOH, Lexus already has the perfect grills designed for fuel cell cars. :)
Similar to my truck which now has 1000+ miles of range (36gal tank), because hydrogen has so much more energy density than any battery could hope for, you wouldn't need to refuel in a National Forest. Compared to any type of batteries, fuel tanks are cheaper and lighter. And you definitely can't drink the water that comes out of the tail pipe of the generator you brought to charge your expensive and heavy battery packs.
 

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Similar to my truck which now has 1000+ miles of range (36gal tank), because hydrogen has so much more energy density than any battery could hope for, you wouldn't need to refuel in a National Forest. Compared to any type of batteries, fuel tanks are cheaper and lighter. And you definitely can't drink the water that comes out of the tail pipe of the generator you brought to charge your expensive and heavy battery packs.
Storage and range remain one of the biggest challenges for hydrogen vehicles, same as BEV. Hydrogen does not have great energy density. In the installed tank measure, the density is quite low compared to gasoline and it has to be stored in extremely expensive tanks at high pressure. To casually throw "1000 miles" worth of range in a vehicle would make an already expensive proposition even worse. The majority of hydrogen fue cell demonstrator vehicles running around have about 300 mile tanks, and if you study them you can see that fitting more would be really challenging.

I've worked with CNG trucks, which were becoming popular back in 2007 when diesel was pushing $4/gallon. Users were looking for a 3 year payback on their $35,000 fuel tanks with the cheaper CNG fuel. Then the great recession hit, diesel fell to $2/gal and the whole CNG truck market went kaput. CNG is obviously much more widely available than hydrogen, but shares the same fuel storage problems. CNG trucks have bulky, heavy, and super expensive fuel tanks for even modest range. Think $35,000 for a set of behind the sleeper tanks, vs $500 for a pair of diesel saddle tanks along the frame rail. They're never used for long haul applications because it's not really plausible to put even 750 miles range on them (where diesel trucks often have 1000 - 1500 mile range).

There's no magic bullet, but the steady drop in battery cost and increase in battery energy density suggests that the simplest solution will prevail. BEVs are already perfectly plausible as second / commuter cars. In ten years they will probably meet the needs of 80% of applications.
 

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No sure anyone noticed GM showed an electric truck the other day in a background of a presser.

Hybrids are a dead end. They in the long run are not cheap as you still have to deal with emissions. Areas banning ICE they too are included.

Now with full electric it is going to be so much cheaper to build. No emissions, no fuel tanks. Just a rearrangement of motors and batteries that all share the same tech. Less moving parts etc.

GM is driving the battery price down to where it is going to bring the EV price to where ICE is. The rate of development is getting faster with more range, lower prices and I expect charging.

To be honest they get a decent charge in the time to fill a tank of gas it will make charging no longer an issue as every gas station will add chargers to islands.

This whole game changed recently. More counties are adding end of ICE sales or lowered the date. GM just moved to make their fleet 40% electric by 2025. VW will do the same or more.

GM also announced more range and lower battery cost to where this is workable.

Now there are still things to work out but the toughest nuts to crack appear to be in hand.

Still the transition over will take time. Not everyones needs will be filled. I E in some applications is expected to remain till 2050 at most mfg but in a small capacity.

Hydrogen is great but filling times etc are issues. I have driven a GM fuel cell and it is just like an electric to drive. I would expect to see fleet use of fuel cell or large truck. These can fill on down time unlike passenger cars.

I have gas in my veins but I fully see the aspects of what is going on and understand how fast things will change once cost come together.

Automakers want EV as they will be cheaper to build and develop once they get the initial cost in line. It could even make sale prices more competing in the future.

Electronic are costly to start but get better and cheaper over time. Just look to the Computers, cell phones and big screen TV’s. The same will apply here. Cars will be built like Computers as technology and components will be sold or licensed to other MFGs. I can see GM wants to be a tech supplier as they already have sold the tech to Honda and I expect others will join. The Ford Mach E in testing was at the GM proving grounds? In fact there are photos of the mule leaving.

The one thing for sure is the next gen years will bring changes like we never saw before even imagined. When I got into car I never could conceive of GM being half EV in my life time Let alone the industry.

I am just watching, reading and looking for the next surprises they drop on us.

For me 450 range and a charging time of 10 min or less for 80% in a package the same price as I pay now would fit my needs. They are not far from that now.

I just hope they keep a place for racing and collector cars as that is my livelihood and also my hobby. Or that I can retire before it is gone.
 

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Now with full electric it is going to be so much cheaper to build. No emissions, no fuel tanks. Just a rearrangement of motors and batteries that all share the same tech. Less moving parts etc.
I would agree with that, but this thread was at one point about towing. It will be a long time, if ever, before EVs work well for towing travel trailers distances or into remote areas (or for big rigs as mentioned above).

When I was looking in early 2019 to buy a truck I did look at the Ram mild hybrid eTorque engines, and quite frankly didn't see the point. Thinking about this Ford Hybrid system, I think it would be more interesting paired to their 2.7 turbo and combined with a larger battery for camping power. But then I'm not interested in towing 10,000+ pounds because I wouldn't do that with a half-ton pickup, so the 2.7 turbo engine would do, supplemented by the electric motor for additional power accelerating. .
 

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I would agree with that, but this thread was at one point about towing. It will be a long time, if ever, before EVs work well for towing travel trailers distances or into remote areas (or for big rigs as mentioned above).

When I was looking in early 2019 to buy a truck I did look at the Ram mild hybrid eTorque engines, and quite frankly didn't see the point. Thinking about this Ford Hybrid system, I think it would be more interesting paired to their 2.7 turbo and combined with a larger battery for camping power. But then I'm not interested in towing 10,000+ pounds because I wouldn't do that with a half-ton pickup, so the 2.7 turbo engine would do, supplemented by the electric motor for additional power accelerating. .
I tried to bring it back on the tracks with the 2ML70. GM learned a lot of lessons from that.
 

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No sure anyone noticed GM showed an electric truck the other day in a background of a presser.

Hybrids are a dead end. They in the long run are not cheap as you still have to deal with emissions. Areas banning ICE they too are included.

Now with full electric it is going to be so much cheaper to build. No emissions, no fuel tanks. Just a rearrangement of motors and batteries that all share the same tech. Less moving parts etc.

GM is driving the battery price down to where it is going to bring the EV price to where ICE is. The rate of development is getting faster with more range, lower prices and I expect charging.

To be honest they get a decent charge in the time to fill a tank of gas it will make charging no longer an issue as every gas station will add chargers to islands.

This whole game changed recently. More counties are adding end of ICE sales or lowered the date. GM just moved to make their fleet 40% electric by 2025. VW will do the same or more.

GM also announced more range and lower battery cost to where this is workable.

Now there are still things to work out but the toughest nuts to crack appear to be in hand.

Still the transition over will take time. Not everyones needs will be filled. I E in some applications is expected to remain till 2050 at most mfg but in a small capacity.

Hydrogen is great but filling times etc are issues. I have driven a GM fuel cell and it is just like an electric to drive. I would expect to see fleet use of fuel cell or large truck. These can fill on down time unlike passenger cars.

I have gas in my veins but I fully see the aspects of what is going on and understand how fast things will change once cost come together.

Automakers want EV as they will be cheaper to build and develop once they get the initial cost in line. It could even make sale prices more competing in the future.

Electronic are costly to start but get better and cheaper over time. Just look to the Computers, cell phones and big screen TV’s. The same will apply here. Cars will be built like Computers as technology and components will be sold or licensed to other MFGs. I can see GM wants to be a tech supplier as they already have sold the tech to Honda and I expect others will join. The Ford Mach E in testing was at the GM proving grounds? In fact there are photos of the mule leaving.

The one thing for sure is the next gen years will bring changes like we never saw before even imagined. When I got into car I never could conceive of GM being half EV in my life time Let alone the industry.

I am just watching, reading and looking for the next surprises they drop on us.

For me 450 range and a charging time of 10 min or less for 80% in a package the same price as I pay now would fit my needs. They are not far from that now.

I just hope they keep a place for racing and collector cars as that is my livelihood and also my hobby. Or that I can retire before it is gone.
Just a note, GM didn’t license nor sell their EV technology to Honda for the two EV vehicles for Honda that was announced, GM is building those two vehicles for Honda at GM factories and Honda is only designing the exterior and interior. Those two Honda vehicles will have GM VINs.
 

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I think EV vehicles and even a truck in some applications , is a good idea to pursue to some extent . . if all costs and pollutant emissions are truly dealt with.

Also . . does anyone else here think a 10 minute charging time for 450 miles driving range on an EV truck is really going to happen? It would defy the physics of electricity to make such a rapid and safe electrical transfer of energy.

The truth is, EV is not emissions and pollution free and anyone thinking that is true does not understand all the heavy metal and other chemical contaminate byproducts that result from manufacturing resulting in dumping or storage of these materials. Not to mention, coal, natural gas or other carbon burning or atomic fuel for charging is so often not included in consideration.

Everything from the latest Apple iPhones , tablets, 4K UHD TVs, vehicle electronics, motors, wiring and more results in energy use emission and build up of concentrated forms of pollution.
Here . . pictured below . . . is just one result of the non included material pollution and left overs from "green" and high technology manufacturing. There are hundreds more.
ICE is around for quite awhile. Carbon capture technology is also being pursued and even used in the area of hydocarbon fuels which offers continued and cleaner use of gasoline and other fuels.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150402-the-worst-place-on-earth
 
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Also . . does anyone else here think a 10 minute charging time for 450 miles driving range on an EV truck is really going to happen? It would defy the physics of electricity to make such a rapid and safe electrical transfer of energy.
I agree with a lot of your post, but as to this portion the only way that's likely to happen in the foreseeable future is with removable battery packs, or else maybe some supplemental plug in cooling system for the battery.

One other thing to consider is the same as that being faced by smartphone manufacturers right now--will high charge rates shorten battery life? That is another detail that needs to be dealt with in shortening charge times.
 

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I agree with a lot of your post, but as to this portion the only way that's likely to happen in the foreseeable future is with removable battery packs, or else maybe some supplemental plug in cooling system for the battery.

One other thing to consider is the same as that being faced by smartphone manufacturers right now--will high charge rates shorten battery life? That is another detail that needs to be dealt with in shortening charge times.
Agree. Regardless, removing and installing battery packs and supplemental cooling system during recharge should also then be figured into the total energy use equation.
That's the biggest problem I have with any EV technology. Are all the costs really being included in the making and use of the vehicle or are some just ignored or put on the side to be dealt with latter . . . "some day" or for someone else?
 
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