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Most dyno results from the better established companies are accurate. Like KNN they are pretty spot on but if you look they are not big numbers either.

It used to be to make power it was intake, Carb, Headers and cam to make power. Today with emissions that is not as cheap or easy anymore. Everyone today wants bolt on performance in a box.

But that really means a good set of heads and a supercharger or Turbo system.

The government does watch this and companies like KNN are pretty much honest on these numbers and they will even not list applications of any model they have not tested the vehicle for power or fit.
It's not emissions that is the problem with adding performance today. In the dark days of emissions it was emissions at the cost of performance and efficiency. Then it become emissions and fuel efficiency at the cost of performance. It took a long time before engineers started figuring out how to have all 3; Good emissions, good efficiency, good performance. The reason it's so hard to get meaningful gains without a lot of work on a modern engine is because manufacturers are doing such a good job of getting everything they can out of these powertrains. As such, simple bolt-ons don't add much, if anything, anymore. If the manufacturers can incorporate all of these things themselves to get max performance out of the box there's just not much left on the table for the aftermarket. Nothing to do with emissions limiting performance. Even cats aren't a restriction anymore.

The flip side is mfrs also have to keep refinement, driveability, and serviceability in mind as well.

As far as the claims made by companies like K&N, they avoid legal issues by stating "up to" a certain gain. They don't guarantee anything. If you gained 0 you can't claim fraid because they never claimed you'd see any gain whatsoever, only that you might see "up to" a certain gain. That is why the dyno charts really don't matter and shouldn't be trusted, they don't have to be accurate because they aren't making any guarantees.
 

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As my new toy is a '22 Canyon V6, I'm new to this forum and enjoying learning about the truck. I was considering a CAI, but almost everyone (e.g. this post and others) say it doesn't do anything other than add noise. But then I noticed aFe posted the dyno chart below showing ~8hp and ~8lb-ft gains on an otherwise un-modded 2nd gen Colorado.

I realize another CAI thread can be like a "which synthetic oil is best" thread, but I'm genuinely curious why almost everyone says our stock intake is best, given actual dyno results to the contrary.
I am by no means a dynograph reading expert, but these ere taken on 2 different days, at different times of the day, with different temperatures and different pressures. Not to mention the blue one has an SAE of .97 and the red one has an SAE of 1.01. So if you take 1.01/.97 * the blues peak of 248.78 you get 259 which COULD explain in the increase
 

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It's not emissions that is the problem with adding performance today. In the dark days of emissions it was emissions at the cost of performance and efficiency. Then it become emissions and fuel efficiency at the cost of performance. It took a long time before engineers started figuring out how to have all 3; Good emissions, good efficiency, good performance. The reason it's so hard to get meaningful gains without a lot of work on a modern engine is because manufacturers are doing such a good job of getting everything they can out of these powertrains. As such, simple bolt-ons don't add much, if anything, anymore. If the manufacturers can incorporate all of these things themselves to get max performance out of the box there's just not much left on the table for the aftermarket. Nothing to do with emissions limiting performance. Even cats aren't a restriction anymore.

The flip side is mfrs also have to keep refinement, driveability, and serviceability in mind as well.
Refinement is a big thing when it comes to an intake
OEMs muffle the sound from the engine, it is a known fact that many people would prefer a quiet engine over a loud one, something performance exhausts and performance intakes dont offer. so its a balance and there may be slight sacrifices to achieve their goals
 

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Refinement is a big thing when it comes to an intake
OEMs muffle the sound from the engine, it is a known fact that many people would prefer a quiet engine over a loud one, something performance exhausts and performance intakes dont offer. so its a balance and there may be slight sacrifices to achieve their goals
Maybe, but there is also the placebo effect and with no actual scientific measurement the only reference people have after installing these products is that they SOUND faster/more powerful and therefore they convince themselves that they are able to feel the difference as well.

It's like the fart muffler ricer trend. Install giant mufflers/exhausts on stock N/A engines and boy they sure SOUND fast, right? Some probably even claimed they added more power/torque. In reality, they ruined the exhaust scavenging and made their cars slower.

The only way to see if there is a net gain is by someone testing both products under the exact same conditions. Dyno is only one tool, and not a very realistic one. Nobody drives around at WOT all the time. So then you compare times at a test and tune at your local drag strip, but then the human factor comes into play. Was the vehicle faster/slower because of the parts or the driver's reaction time? Can the results be reproduced consistently? If not then the results are invalid and no conclusion can be drawn.

The short of it is that simple bolt-ons like intakes make bold claims and more noise but no real, quantifiable difference in the real world on public roads.
 

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you can even say with a trifecta tune there isn't much either, the only time you really notice it is low down because of the additional torque you gain, but even then its still not a huge bump since the trans are tuned to compensate for the lack of low end and always want to put you in a lower gear
As someone who ran 35's on stock gearing at ~6000# loaded, I can tell you the Trifecta Tune definitely woke up the truck. Power down low is where you need it 99.9% of the time.

Keep in mind, these gains are just the tune, with no bolt on parts. You are making the same amount of low end torque ~1000rpm earlier than stock and it carries that ~20% increase all the way to 5k RPM. Lets not gloss over the tune making 2-3x the gain of a CAI over the entire RPM range. The only thing that will provide more power is a supercharger. But I guess it's not much.

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A little pre-twins history...

I spent quite a bit of time doing mods to turn street cars into track-day cars and going through the whole evolution, starting stock to get baseline lap times, slowly making changes, re-testing, etc. My last vehicle that I built for street/track use was a 2011 Dodge Challenger R/T 6-speed manual. By the time I was done (suspension, tires, tune, headers, cat-back exhaust so the only part of the exhaust that was stock were the cats, front and rear strut braces, etc) I was quicker than the SRT 392 cars and was chasing cars I shouldn't be able to keep up with.

One thing that never changed was the intake. The factory airbox, filter, and intake tube had already been flow tested and provided more than enough flow even with the other engine mods. I did mods that I knew would be functional and nothing has changed since those days. 99% of the mods I do have a purpose and I don't just throw money at things because they might do something.
 

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Maybe, but there is also the placebo effect and with no actual scientific measurement the only reference people have after installing these products is that they SOUND faster/more powerful and therefore they convince themselves that they are able to feel the difference as well.

It's like the fart muffler ricer trend. Install giant mufflers/exhausts on stock N/A engines and boy they sure SOUND fast, right? Some probably even claimed they added more power/torque. In reality, they ruined the exhaust scavenging and made their cars slower.

The only way to see if there is a net gain is by someone testing both products under the exact same conditions. Dyno is only one tool, and not a very realistic one. Nobody drives around at WOT all the time. So then you compare times at a test and tune at your local drag strip, but then the human factor comes into play. Was the vehicle faster/slower because of the parts or the driver's reaction time? Can the results be reproduced consistently? If not then the results are invalid and no conclusion can be drawn.

The short of it is that simple bolt-ons like intakes make bold claims and more noise but no real, quantifiable difference in the real world on public roads.
i know there are real world gains from both a complete exhaust system and intake system. through my vehicle ownign life i've owned a few cars that i've modified, both Volkswagen's and both turboed, 07 GTI and 2012 Golf R, both tuned and runnign stage 2 and stage 2+. stage 2 requires intake and exhaust to tune, both took into account the added flow, bot increased gains from the base stage 1 tunes by more then 20% on my golf R it was significant;y more and required a high pressure fuel pump upgrade and the tuning company APR would advertise results for each upgrade. my GTI went from around 200 hors to closer to 290 and my Golf R went from an advertised 256 to 365hp, and let me tell you, they were significant gains on each. my R was a weapon and i miss it every day and curse the ****** that rear ended me and wrote it off
 

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A little pre-twins history...

I spent quite a bit of time doing mods to turn street cars into track-day cars and going through the whole evolution, starting stock to get baseline lap times, slowly making changes, re-testing, etc. My last vehicle that I built for street/track use was a 2011 Dodge Challenger R/T 6-speed manual. By the time I was done (suspension, tires, tune, headers, cat-back exhaust so the only part of the exhaust that was stock were the cats, front and rear strut braces, etc) I was quicker than the SRT 392 cars and was chasing cars I shouldn't be able to keep up with.

One thing that never changed was the intake. The factory airbox, filter, and intake tube had already been flow tested and provided more than enough flow even with the other engine mods. I did mods that I knew would be functional and nothing has changed since those days. 99% of the mods I do have a purpose and I don't just throw money at things because they might do something.
Yep my heavily modified brz was built to STX specs but still kept the oem airbox too because none added anymore power and some even lost power. I finally removed mine once i went built and boosted
 

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As someone who ran 35's on stock gearing at ~6000# loaded, I can tell you the Trifecta Tune definitely woke up the truck. Power down low is where you need it 99.9% of the time.

Keep in mind, these gains are just the tune, with no bolt on parts. You are making the same amount of low end torque ~1000rpm earlier than stock and it carries that ~20% increase all the way to 5k RPM. Lets not gloss over the tune making 2-3x the gain of a CAI over the entire RPM range. The only thing that will provide more power is a supercharger. But I guess it's not much.

View attachment 434978
lol i have the tune as well, while it does something you can also make the case that it really isnt much 20 peak torque and 11 peak hp. its still lacking and really not heavily noticeable unless you're looking for it, most people that drive my truck can't tell the difference between stock and tuned
 

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i know there are real world gains from both a complete exhaust system and intake system. through my vehicle ownign life i've owned a few cars that i've modified, both Volkswagen's and both turboed, 07 GTI and 2012 Golf R, both tuned and runnign stage 2 and stage 2+. stage 2 requires intake and exhaust to tune, both took into account the added flow, bot increased gains from the base stage 1 tunes by more then 20% on my golf R it was significant;y more and required a high pressure fuel pump upgrade and the tuning company APR would advertise results for each upgrade. my GTI went from around 200 hors to closer to 290 and my Golf R went from an advertised 256 to 365hp, and let me tell you, they were significant gains on each. my R was a weapon and i miss it every day and curse the ** that rear ended me and wrote it off
The problem here is you're comparing tuned and modified forced induction gas engines to an N/A V6 in a truck. Apples and oranges. You can't even do headers on the 3.6 because the manifold is integrated into the head, so if you need more exhaust flow and the integrated manifolds are a restriction then you're boned.
 
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you can even say with a trifecta tune there isn't much either, the only time you really notice it is low down because of the additional torque you gain, but even then its still not a huge bump since the trans are tuned to compensate for the lack of low end and always want to put you in a lower gear
Good point I think. I have no idea what exactly Trifecta changes.
I'm talking if you want more torque, easy, just downshift.
How does the transmission change that dyno curve anyway?? What about things like, say, tire pressure??
I think I want to see numbers off the crank.
??
 

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The problem here is you're comparing tuned and modified forced induction gas engines to an N/A V6 in a truck. Apples and oranges. You can't even do headers on the 3.6 because the manifold is integrated into the head, so if you need more exhaust flow and the integrated manifolds are a restriction then you're boned.
i get that, but there is stil la bit of gain, yeah you cant do headers but in todays world, those arent usually the restrictive parts, its the 3 cats placed in the down pipe and one down stream, its also the tight T bend the V6 exhaust does instead of a flowing Y where the banks flow into one.

on the intake side, its the air box itself and the slinky piping that adds a bit of restriction which reduces some of the air velocity and reduces response slightly. all are pumping loses that can improve the feel.
 

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Good point I think. I have no idea what exactly Trifecta changes.
I'm talking if you want more torque, easy, just downshift.
How does the transmission change that dyno curve anyway?? What about things like, say, tire pressure??
I think I want to see numbers off the crank.
??
they don't really change the curve but the transmission puts you in a different place in the powerband, thats the way they are tuned and engineered. these days with the advancements in automatic transmissions, performance isn't really a factor like it used to be, they can make a lacking engine feel more potent then they ever could in the past.
 

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Something everyone is forgetting. With a high quality aftermarket CAI installed a low pressure differential is created at the front of the vehicle. The lowered pressure reduces the coefficient of drag and enables a higher top speed and improves mpg on the highway.


:LOL:
 

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Most dyno results from the better established companies are accurate. Like KNN they are pretty spot on but if you look they are not big numbers either.

It used to be to make power it was intake, Carb, Headers and cam to make power. Today with emissions that is not as cheap or easy anymore. Everyone today wants bolt on performance in a box.

But that really means a good set of heads and a supercharger or Turbo system.

The government does watch this and companies like KNN are pretty much honest on these numbers and they will even not list applications of any model they have not tested the vehicle for power or fit.

Some companies like Split Fire plugs claimed power increases but that was all bunk. Electric follows the path of lease resistance and the plugs never added a thing. They got busted for it and were made to list no increases and pretty much vanished from the market. Slick 50 was the same deal and got caught. They said it was used on the space shuttle but for what to lube the door? It slimed many engines and added nothing in durability. The Teflon did not bond with anything as they claimed.

But be wary some items like Carbon Fiber Brakes and Ceramic polish can claim to contain these materials but there is no regulation as too how much it may have. In many cases if it is cheap they put enough in to claim it but not enough to really make a difference.

General rule if it is cheap and offers more power or durability and is not used by the factory odds are good it is suspect.

We had years of magnets that added MPG and that 100 MPG carb that the oil companies bought up to prevent from being on the market.
How do these guys get away with it? I guess it's hard to test combustion pressure.
And don't get me started on Lucas. lol
E3 Racing Spark Plugs
Designed specifically for conditions at the track, E3 racing spark plugs combine a maximized spark presentation and optimized flame propagation. The unique patented DiamondFIRE electrode configuration of these new E3 spark plugs increases the amount of combustion pressure created during each power stroke of an engine. Round after round, lap after lap, the E3 racing spark plugs provide you the consistency you need for winning performance.
 

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I am by no means a dynograph reading expert, but these ere taken on 2 different days, at different times of the day, with different temperatures and different pressures. Not to mention the blue one has an SAE of .97 and the red one has an SAE of 1.01. So if you take 1.01/.97 * the blues peak of 248.78 you get 259 which COULD explain in the increase
I like the .drf file saved for the baseline. It says Baseline_007.drf.
How many baselines does one need to run? Looks to me like it took 7 to get a number they wanted to use on their advertisements. lol
This is fun....
 
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Something everyone is forgetting. With a high quality aftermarket CAI installed a low pressure differential is created at the front of the vehicle. The lowered pressure reduces the coefficient of drag and enables a higher top speed and improves mpg on the highway.


:LOL:
It MUST be paired with a very large air dam though. We all love those anyway so it's all good.
 
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No where in that test data does it state the stock filter in the test was clean.... it could have been blocked with all kinds of debris.
I'd bet if you dyno'd a truck with 40k on the stock filter and re-ran the test with a new, clean filter you'd probably see similar results.

Never believe ANYTHING you read in an ad, EVER. The Russians have a proverb that loosely says "Trust but verify" but when it comes to someone trying to take your money, forget about the "trust" part.
 

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lol i have the tune as well, while it does something you can also make the case that it really isnt much 20 peak torque and 11 peak hp. its still lacking and really not heavily noticeable unless you're looking for it, most people that drive my truck can't tell the difference between stock and tuned
That is more or less the point I'm making. If someone could hardly tell a truck is tuned, (which provides significantly more gains across the RPM range), the CAI gains will be unrecognizable. And that CAI is basically just a sound maker.

BTW, a linear 8 hp gain from a CAI in these trucks is about 0.1 sec faster in the 1/4 mile. That's not even a truck length from what would essentially be 0-90 mph. Trifecta reports shaving off 0.5 sec in the shorter 0-60. Massive difference.
 
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