Chevy Colorado & GMC Canyon banner
  • Hey Everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of this months Ride of the Month Challenge!
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Vendor
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
OK folks, I'm bringing a situation to the masses on this site and I ask for possible solutions. I've read some great feedback for a lot of questions and I feel the remedy for my situation might be be a great business idea ($$$) for someone. Vortech's superchargers are installed on Chevys, Fords, Dodges, etc. Think of the sales opportunities! I don't think this involves the Mallet installers and I'll take anyone's constructive input.

I have the v3 Vortech supercharger installed on my 2016 Colorado as part of the RIPPMOD install. As the weather gets colder, I've heard and read about the operation (or not) of this type of supercharger in cold weather. Some folks continue to use them as DD's and others park them for the winter. The unit is separate from the engine block, so block heater won't help.

I'm looking at building an on-board, 12VDC set-up that uses either the truck's battery or an external 12 VDC battery (motorcycle), an inverter, a timer and a warming blanket (battery heater). The idea is to have a system that doesn't need to have a 110 VAC plug-in to rely on. Heck, I even thought about securing a Zippo 12 hr. handwarmer to the supercharger housing. I've used my truck since the install for feedback about installation instruction clarity, difficulties/solutions and tuning. Why not this . . .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,627 Posts
OK folks, I'm bringing a situation to the masses on this site and I ask for possible solutions. I've read some great feedback for a lot of questions and I feel the remedy for my situation might be be a great business idea ($$$) for someone. Vortech's superchargers are installed on Chevys, Fords, Dodges, etc. Think of the sales opportunities! I don't think this involves the Mallet installers and I'll take anyone's constructive input.

I have the v3 Vortech supercharger installed on my 2016 Colorado as part of the RIPPMOD install. As the weather gets colder, I've heard and read about the operation (or not) of this type of supercharger in cold weather. Some folks continue to use them as DD's and others park them for the winter. The unit is separate from the engine block, so block heater won't help.

I'm looking at building an on-board, 12VDC set-up that uses either the truck's battery or an external 12 VDC battery (motorcycle), an inverter, a timer and a warming blanket (battery heater). The idea is to have a system that doesn't need to have a 110 VAC plug-in to rely on. Heck, I even thought about securing a Zippo 12 hr. handwarmer to the supercharger housing. I've used my truck since the install for feedback about installation instruction clarity, difficulties/solutions and tuning. Why not this . . .
I was of the understanding that superchargers create heat ( a bad thing) thats why you need a way to cool the air coming from them.

I'm going to guess you are afraid of some kind of cold damage, like the oil in it will freeze? I don't live in such an extreme cold climate but I'm pretty sure oil doesn't freeze. :)

OR are you saying the thing just wont run when its cold? What am I missing Canadian and other northern RIPP users? Need an inner-cooler by-pass or something???
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
659 Posts
I've heard 2 different scenarios:

1. The oil becomes too thick below freezing which keeps it from flowing = bearing failure.

2. Since the case and gears are two different types of metal, they shrink at different rates when frozen. The aluminum case shrinks more than the steel gears. The tolerances are extremely close to begin with so when it is below freezing, upon initial start up the impeller breaks apart.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
To add to Matt's input:
From my research, the superchargers used to not come with the cold weather operation warning and some consumers up in the "Great White North," that were sending their units back to the company for failures/warranty replacement, were starting to cost the company a lot of warranty repair/replacement money. I've also read that the helical gears on the v3 are of such close tolerance, the oil inside the case doesn't get a chance to lube the gears to prevent failure. Eventually, the cold weather operating notice was born, to curb the warranty expense. This is ONLY my research. My guess is Vortech put the cold weather issue to bed with the notice and doesn't want to build a warming kit, only to have consumers possibly say they don't work and now they've got another warranty/refund issue to deal with. That's where we can help each other . . .
For me, what's done is done: I'm focusing on finding a solution and am willing to share that info. I even got my gearhead co-workers involved. I just told them I didn't think something like a supercharger case warmer could be built.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Here's what I'm looking at so far:


Kat's 22200 80 Watt 36" Battery Thermal Wrap $24.94
Amazon
- Wagan EL2621 Smart AC Power Strip Inverter $33.42
Amazon
- BESTEK 300W Power Inverter DC 12V to 110V AC Car Inverter with 4.2A Dual USB Car Adapter $27.99
Amazon
-OR-
15A/1800W 7-Day Programmable Timer Switch, plug-in Wall LCD Digital Electrical Timer Switch with 3-prong Outlet, UL Listed , Set of 2 $16.99
Amazon


My buddy's working on the battery drain calculations.


More later . . .
UPDATE:
CHROME Batteries (Deep cycle) Under the hood??
12V 35AH Sealed Lead Acid Battery - Nut & Bolt Terminals $71.50
Volts12 V
Amp Hour35AH
Watts420 Watts
ChemistryLead Acid
Terminal TypeNut and Bolt
L7.68"X W5.12"X D6.46"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,627 Posts
I've heard 2 different scenarios:

1. The oil becomes too thick below freezing which keeps it from flowing = bearing failure.

2. Since the case and gears are two different types of metal, they shrink at different rates when frozen. The aluminum case shrinks more than the steel gears. The tolerances are extremely close to begin with so when it is below freezing, upon initial start up the impeller breaks apart.
Ok, got it, so how do all the turbo diesels handle the "cold problems"? Hell, there would be a much larger difference in temp ranges there. The turbo going from below freezing to hot exhaust temps. Turbo housings are aluminum too aren't they?

Seems like #1 could be solved by using the correct oil??
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,277 Posts
Ok, got it, so how do all the turbo diesels handle the "cold problems"? Hell, there would be a much larger difference in temp ranges there. The turbo going from below freezing to hot exhaust temps. Turbo housings are aluminum too aren't they?

Seems like #1 could be solved by using the correct oil??
I think it comes down to tight tolerance with the specific head unit. Maybe a lot of the OE turbos don't have such tight tolerances?
 
  • Like
Reactions: White016

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,627 Posts
Here's what I'm looking at so far:


Kat's 22200 80 Watt 36" Battery Thermal Wrap $24.94
Amazon
- Wagan EL2621 Smart AC Power Strip Inverter $33.42
Amazon
- BESTEK 300W Power Inverter DC 12V to 110V AC Car Inverter with 4.2A Dual USB Car Adapter $27.99
Amazon
-OR-
15A/1800W 7-Day Programmable Timer Switch, plug-in Wall LCD Digital Electrical Timer Switch with 3-prong Outlet, UL Listed , Set of 2 $16.99
Amazon


My buddy's working on the battery drain calculations.


More later . . .
UPDATE:
CHROME Batteries (Deep cycle) Under the hood??
12V 35AH Sealed Lead Acid Battery - Nut & Bolt Terminals $71.50
Volts12 V
Amp Hour35AH
Watts420 Watts
ChemistryLead Acid
Terminal TypeNut and Bolt
L7.68"X W5.12"X D6.46"
If you really want to do this without a 120v plug in I think you better find a way to warm without using an inverter. Inverters are not very efficient, just a waste of electricity. I bet someone out there makes a 12 volt, low watt heater of some sort. But with that being said, making heat with electricity takes a lot of it. You might need a bed load of batteries for even an overnight heater.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Iamscotticus

·
Vendor
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks JScottM,

Heck, I'm even looking at 12vdc pipe heat wrap tape!
Strange: A few months ago, the SC housing was so hot I couldn't even touch it and I was trying to dissipate the heat, now I'm trying to keep its heat in! What a world . . .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Ok, got it, so how do all the turbo diesels handle the "cold problems"? Hell, there would be a much larger difference in temp ranges there. The turbo going from below freezing to hot exhaust temps. Turbo housings are aluminum too aren't they?

Seems like #1 could be solved by using the correct oil??
1) Turbo housings are aluminum on the charge side and usually cast iron on the exhaust side.

2) Oil has nothing to do with the issue, the issue is clearances being too tight and that won't solve anything with a new oil type/weight.

If it was designed properly the clearances for cold weather operation would be loosened to compensate for this, not having a cold start durability testing as part of validation is just foolish, but if this was done this issue would not be. Seems to me like they rushed the product to market and skipped a step or just lack of experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,627 Posts
1) Turbo housings are aluminum on the charge side and usually cast iron on the exhaust side.

2) Oil has nothing to do with the issue, the issue is clearances being too tight and that won't solve anything with a new oil type/weight.

If it was designed properly the clearances for cold weather operation would be loosened to compensate for this, not having a cold start durability testing as part of validation is just foolish, but if this was done this issue would not be. Seems to me like they rushed the product to market and skipped a step or just lack of experience.
Someone mentioned bearing failure, thats why I mentioned oil.

I think the OP was talking about Vortec products. ?? If so, I think they have been making SCs for decades. Seems like lack of experience wouldn't be the problem. I'm thinking at this point it is not even a problem at all????

Off topic but, cold weather, rain, snow, ect, that's what garages are for IMO. I say take that $8k and put it toward a place to park, then buy a SC if you like. Ha! ;) I would love to tell people how to spend their money, but for some weird reason they don't appreciate it...:???:wtf??? lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,627 Posts
Thanks JScottM,

Heck, I'm even looking at 12vdc pipe heat wrap tape!
Strange: A few months ago, the SC housing was so hot I couldn't even touch it and I was trying to dissipate the heat, now I'm trying to keep its heat in! What a world . . .
yes, I think I have seen low voltage wrap for pipe or even for roofs to stop ice dams, probably has its own t-stat too. There you go, easy. Now how to deal with dead batteries?

I really think you should just buy a heating pad, throw it under the hood, put it on low, and plug it in.......but thats me.....its your project, have fun with it......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Someone mentioned bearing failure, thats why I mentioned oil.



I think the OP was talking about Vortec products. ?? If so, I think they have been making SCs for decades. Seems like lack of experience wouldn't be the problem. I'm thinking at this point it is not even a problem at all????

Cold weather durability is done because the oil is so think the bearings do not get oil. Even with the lack of oil the supercharger should still be able to run without failure.

And yeah Vortec is very experienced hence the presumption that it was probably rushed or supplier/manufacturing issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well, the city owns the park and ride I park my truck at - outside - to get to work, so buying it isn't an option. My reason for a"120VAC independent system" is so I don't have to rely on the plug in for heating the truck as it sits for the 8 hours I'm at work.. By the way, the truck's parked at night in my heated garage. So that's not a problem.
Had a buddy just tell me about something called, "Pyrogel XT-E." Some sort of NASA high-temp insulation material. Maybe just wrap the SC housing with it and leave it secured like that thru the winter.
Appreciate the positive inputs so far.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
196 Posts
https://wolverineheater.com/collections/12-volt-heaters


Home - XS Power

https://www.powerstream.com/battery-capacity-calculations.htm

Power Tender 5 Amp Battery Charger


I was originally going to do a setup like your wanting to do with my diesel to preheat in the winter while at work. This is some of the stuff I found and was going to use. I planned on putting the battery in the bed to power what I did and run a set of cables from the truck battery to it. Then use a disconnect switch to separate them when the truck was off and after starting the truck after using the heater turn it back on to help charge the aux battery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,627 Posts
@3250man looks like this is the way to go to me???



https://wolverineheater.com/collections/12-volt-heaters

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0090MTLF...t=&hvlocphy=9016180&hvtargid=pla-319842178283

Home - XS Power

https://www.powerstream.com/battery-capacity-calculations.htm

Power Tender 5 Amp Battery Charger


I was originally going to do a setup like your wanting to do with my diesel to preheat in the winter while at work. This is some of the stuff I found and was going to use. I planned on putting the battery in the bed to power what I did and run a set of cables from the truck battery to it. Then use a disconnect switch to separate them when the truck was off and after starting the truck after using the heater turn it back on to help charge the aux battery.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Excellent information, many thanks!!
I got a small single, plug inverter at Walmart this weekend just to get started. Thought I had something I could use - only to read the instructions: "Do not use this unit in temperatures under 32 degrees F." Ha! So much for that idea. Took it back.

Anyway, I'll take a look at this person's set-up idea.
I was also looking at a deep-cycle battery, mounted under the hood. There's room between the radiator and engine block. I'd only need to warmer for the time it is sitting outside.
Thanks again . . .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,613 Posts
Here is what I know.

I used to deal with Vortec and Paxton Superchargers on warranty work. In all the warranty cases I saw I never heard or saw an issue with the cold. Now that is to say It could not happen but it was never an issue in all the issues I saw over the years.


Generally if the oil is an issue you have the wrong oil. I would expect they would have a synthetic that would withstand the cold.

The thing I remember to is Vortec and Paxton are both now owned by the same company if I remember correctly. The main difference in their products is the Vortec used its own oil and the Paxton used the engine oil. The problem with Paxton is for racers who may blow an engine the oil may take the SC too. It was a better street charger because of this than a race.


I have had a couple GM SC engines and both had no issues on cold with their own oil in the unit.


I would recommend calling Vortec and just talk to them directly on your questions vs. seeking help on the web. No disrespect to anyone here but the MFG should have all the answers as they don't want your warranty call no more than you wanting to make it.


Vortec 805-247-0226


Paxton 888-972-9866


According to my notes here they have different numbers but they have the same address.


To be honest we had few warranty issues with these units and most were installation issues. The factory would change something and often I would have to wait for the new air intake or what ever to be made to finish the job. Paxton was a pain under Granatelli but should be better under the new owners.


let us know what they say.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,613 Posts
Here I found this.


https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...System_Owner_s_Manual.pdf?6048485038818028430


Note the box on page one.


Important Cold Weather Operation


In order to achieve the low noise level of Vortech


superchargers, Vortech specifies manufacturing


procedures that call for minimal internal clearance.


These precise tolerances however are not


conducive to temperatures below 25° F. Therefore,


storing the vehicle in a heated garage and/or


employing the use of an engine block


heater/aftermarket engine blanket is required when


the vehicle is subjected to a "cold startup" in


ambient temperatures below 25° F. Failure to


comply with this may result in immediate


supercharger failure and invalidate the


supercharger warranty.




Note Paxton also has the same warning.


To be fair most applications I dealt with were not daily drivers and most were race cars that never were in the cold. So it would make sense I would not see cold weather issues.

I would still call them and talk to them.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
hyperv6,

I called both Vortech and RIPPMODS about this situation. Sergio, of Vortech, reinforced their warranty of not operating the SC below 32 (?) degrees. The RIPP installation booklet states the 25F temp limit. I see Vortech's position of not wanting to do warranty work on their units due to cold weather ops, but they have to know folks around the world will be using their products. I also see their position of not offering a cold weather heater system, as that may result in warranty claims on the warmer and/or the SC failure. That's why I'm bring this to the site because I read some really good ideas and feedback about questions by the members.

Thanks for sharing your extensive knowledge of the SC's. A co-worker suggested a deep-cycle battery, hooked to an on/off manual switch connected to a length of pipe heating tape. The tape is internally thermal controlled to cycle on and off at pre-set temps (on: 32F, off: 60F). Barely a trickle for amp draw. Might just work . . .
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top