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Smaller Tires and Less Lift (and other weird things)

40K views 51 replies 16 participants last post by  drewabbs 
#1 · (Edited)
I wanted to offer an alternative to the threads going with large lifts and the largest tires as you can. This Truck has continually shifted my thoughts on what to do to it, and still has me going back to the drawing board on a few configs. These are some of the brain drippings when modding the vehicle over the last 2 weeks. It rambles, so sorry for the length of this.

Disclaimer: Obviously, do what you want with your rig, these are just items I found with my setup. Still, I would love to hear others opinions on their config.

First a brief garage history of me. Avoiding the sports cars, my last few off-road vehicles:
(Current beast) 2013 Jeep Wrangler JKU: 3” lift 37” tires
2004 Nissan Titan: 2.5” lift………..34.2” Tires
2007 Jeep Wrangler JKU: 3” lift………35” tires
1984 Jeep Wrangler YJ: 2.75” lift……34” Tires
2010 Toyota Tundra: 2.75” lift………33.5” Tires

I am not opposed of re-gearing, larger tires, lifts, UCA, etc. This is why it’s going to get weird on this thread. I need this truck to be fully capable, not showy. Good on highway, great on jeep trails, dirt roads, and corn fields.

I had walked into this truck project with the intent to put a 4” lift and 34” tires on my 2015 Canyon. Since Fox couldn’t get the 2.5 line out in time, I decided to put the 1.25” body lift I had intended on the truck and opt for a 1.75” Leveler lift, giving me 3” lift overall. I slapped some Mickey Thompsons Baja ATZ 285/70R17s on (measured 33” tall and 11.5” wide per the manufacturers’ website specs). So I am already lower than my original plan.

Then this truck changed my mind on a few things:
Body Lift: I don’t like them on almost any vehicle. I deliberated right up to where I jacked up the tires. This truck needs it. It responds well from it, and gives you back the fender room you need. I opted for the smallest body lift I could go, and have no cutting. Hands down the best decision yet. Handling is not hindered in any way and you can step up slightly in tire size. The kits are way better than they used to be, and I do not feel that it impeded the quality of the ride in any way.

Leveler Lift: I know its no comparison to 2.5 coilovers, but I am relatively impressed with the response. I went with a 1.75” and am glad I didn’t go any bigger due to how the truck sits. Plus anything I can do to minimize any loss of upward travel or over-extension on downward. I also had some concerns on the CV angles, but less so now that I have been under it. Its still there, but ¼ inch of washer has me less concerned. More pictures to follow on the Diff drop thread.

Rake: At 1.75” leveler lift , the rake is non-existent, and I am contemplating going down .25 to .5 inches more in the front or even lift the rear .5” to 1” when add-a-leafs come out for the twins so I can get some rake back.

Gas Mileage per Gallon: With the removal of the front lip and adding a lift and tires, I have noted a very limited impact on my MPG. Unless you re-calibrate to your new size, the calculation difference in tire circumference will carry over to mpg as well. Even with some degree of error, I have seen less than a Mile Per gallon impact.

Spacers: I had a cousin who had a friend whose brothers dads car exploded in the driveway when he tried to install them on his car. Ok, outside of that and all joking aside, I never really liked spacers nor adapters if you can fully avoid them, and I would never use them if they are not hub centric. BUT, Canyons hubs extend 12 mm out and if there is a 5mm spacer on them, I am still getting the most out of the actual hub without having to go to a full on hub centric spacer. Diatribes on how evil spacers are, or how quickly I will die in a ball of fire, please set up a new thread.

DynaBeads: Or most other well designed Balancing beads. Love them, love them, love them. No one ever used to install them for me in the past and I almost stopped using them, but they have become very common if you show up to the tire shop with them and I will take them over lifetime balancing any day.

Tires: (here’s the big one) : Coming from the 285/70R17 MT Baja ATZ (33” Tall, 11.5 wide) I knew that these tires run big. But knowing I was at 3” I had thought I had room to spare. Being so big, the interior rubs on front sway, the back interior does not rub, but on any flex, it will a lot. Fender room is good on the highway, but it would never be able to fit in the well on 3” upward movement. What I noticed immediately, is that I lost the mid-size truck feel and it felt like a full size truck in tire weight, and reaction on the road. Steering wheel felt sluggish, and performance was more lethargic, and was reluctant to flex the truck offroad. I love the actual tires, 37” Baja ATZ will be going on the Jeep soon, but on this truck, I didn’t like the ride home from the tire shop.

I went down in size (lightning strike for effect).

I moved to the 275/70R17 BF Goodrich KO2 (32.2” tall 11” wide) nearly .8” smaller and .5” narrower and 4lbs lighter than my earlier set. I regained the nimbleness of the mid-size truck, and got a bit more travel on the upward movement on the flex. I even got an extra centimeter back so I could push the tires out a few millimeters more flush against the fender and to keep it off of the sway bar (which was still rubbing).​



Net/net, what I found was the levers did have enough of an effect on the rake that it did impact the “factory feel” that every leveler lift company says isn’t changed by their product. It does a bit, not horribly, but noticeably. Tire size for my setup, and many like it, cannot handle 11.5” width tires without spacers pushing it out of Factory backspacing. Any lift saying it can fit 285s without rubbing, I can’t see how it can get past the sway bar on full turn unless the actual tire size is even thinner than 11 actual inches wide. At least on my vehicle. I don’t know how others are doing it even by going larger on the leveler lifts, but do yourself a favor, do a full turn on your vehicle, and then get under it and measure hopefully your truck will be like everyone else’s and you can somehow make it work.
Eventually I may go to the Fox 2.5s, but I am in no rush and don’t expect to go above 2”, eventually I may go to 285s but not on factory rims and not without fender flares and cutting, but for now I am happier having moved to smaller tires and lifts.
 
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#2 ·
Great post, thank you. I have my truck waiting on me when I can get back home and have been trying to figure out my setup..either the 1.5" body lift and 2.5"/1" level lift but I don't think bigger than 285/70/17 is going to work well no matter what with sway bars how they are positions. Leaning toward your setup.
 
#3 ·
.either the 1.5" body lift and 2.5"/1" level lift but I don't think bigger than 285/70/17 is going to work well no matter what with sway bars how they are positions. Leaning toward your setup.
I did the SuspensionMaxx 1.75" leveler due to the diff drop kit being included. I looked at others, but they want you to cut the bolts on your top plate. Too much commitment there.

And went with the Rough Country 1.25" body. All the body lifts seem to be solid kits but liked this one because there was zero cutting, just new drill holes. Really I would mainly focus on the lift you need more than quality differences between Zone, RC, and a few others.
 
#4 ·
I am impressed with the work you have done, and the commitment(s) you made to these mods. Not my cup of tea, but guys like you help push the envelope for development of some great upgrades to vehicles.
 
#5 ·
So with the 275/R70-17 tires you still needed a spacer to prevent rubbing on the sway bar? But after that you had no rubbing on the sway bar or the fenderwell?
 
#6 ·
Yes, on full turn, it still hits on an 11". I am working on a Sway bar drop and the spacers to see if I can re-mediate it, but its still a WIP. Very minor, but want to see if i can get rid of it completely.
 
#7 ·
Thought the Pics would help

Leveler Lift and Factory 30s (265)

Leveler Lift and Body Lift on Factory 30s (265)

Leveler Lift, Body Lift, 33s (285)

Leveler Lift Body Lift 32.2 (275)
 

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#8 · (Edited)
This was very informative. I have some rubbing on the rear frame of mine still. I dropped and moved front sway bar out 1 inch and dropped it 2 inches. What I have found is that dropping it helped with the angle of the bar, if you moved it out too far you actually will rub the inside of tire on the trailing end of sway bar. This was done with a rough Country kit for a 73-87 Chevy full size. The holes are elongated to provide adjustment. I used Rough country part 1019 kit utilizing the angle toward the front with the larger end on the bottom and the plastic cover fits back on with no mods and will rest on sway mount and flex a little. I did not cut plastic so I am able to return it to stock if needed.
 
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#9 ·
I was curious to see what you all thought about 255/70-18's fitting without rubbing the sway bar. It looks like they are about 10" wide compared to 10.8 on the tire size calculator.

I know comparing 18's to 17's is like apples to oranges, but the overall tire dimensions are still in play. Do you think losing an inch of tire width would cut down on your rubbing of the swaybar?
 
#10 ·
I was curious to see what you all thought about 255/70-18's fitting without rubbing the sway bar.
A lot of variables:

It depends on your lift amount.

255 is the stock width but I think the additional height may require slight trimming on the front or rear, and the sway bar may still get hit. My 33" did find for height, it was the width, but others have had to do slight trimming on the front plastic fender piece.

Another variable is the tire manufacturer and type. Hit the manufacturer site and look at the exact width for the tire you want. They vary so much that one 255/70R18 would work and another wont.

Best thing to do is crank that wheel and get underneath the vehicle. Add 1.5" to one side of the tire (because its 3" bigger all around) and see what you could hit.

On my setup, i need about 1/4" - 1/2" extra to clear the sway. Losing width (in order to get 1/2" on one side I would have to go and inch thinner) the spacer is the easier choice for me.

Anyone else try the pizza cutters who can lend experience vs. theory?
 
#14 ·
Forgot to mention, another added bonus:
By switching back to the 32.2 I am going with 235/85r16 for my spare. It puts me within about 1/2 of an inch to the full tire. But it allows me to get .78 in thinner on the tire. I never liked how low that sat for an exit angle. It aint much, but I will take it.
 
#18 · (Edited)
No sorry, I mistook your question.
I thought you were talking about the leveling kit.

www.motorsport-tech.com

Give the guy a call directly when ordering. He knows his stuff.
They made my spacers to order, and it sounds like hes been getting hit with a ton of requests for the twins.

My 6mm spacers I spoke of earlier, are for the wheels.
Your trucks center bore is 12mm long, in order to keep it hub centric you would need to stay a little below that, and use the existing lugs bolts if possible.
OR
if you go more than that (since your adapters would have no lip at 12mm) you would need to decide if you wanted to cut the lugs for shallow mounts or go so thick with your spacer that you can use the existing.

I wanted to try and get away with the minimum amount of spacer, this puts the tire right at the fender about mid way up so I am not slinging rock. And at full flex I will never hit fender.
 
#19 ·
Ah, ok thanks. Yea I'm trying to figure out what would be the best spacer size to keep those KO2s, 275/70/17s for me, under the fender but avoid full crank rubbing. Sounds like 2in/6mm+.
 
#20 ·
Yea I'm trying to figure out what would be the best spacer size to keep those KO2s, 275/70/17s
I will know if the 6mm fixes it in about 2-3 weeks. If that doesnt work, I have been looking into someone who can fabricate the sway bar relocate piece. between those two, I think the issue will go away.
(Its odd, no one wants to sell a small piece of billet with 2 threads on it for $60.)

Billet Aluminum Sway Bar Relocation Blocks, Demello Offroad

will keep you posted.
 
#21 · (Edited)
At 6mm, the Sway bar rubbing is gone. It fills the wheel wells nice and allows the fronts to fully sit on the hubs.
The rear hubs are somewhat shorter than the fronts. If I had to do it again, I may have gone with a 4mm even, but for now its the solution.

My fabricator is still working on the swaybar drop/adapter. He has the CADs made, but has not yet milled it. If this solves the issue, I may lose the adapters en lieu of this alternative.

more to come, but for now....pics on the Adapters:
 

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#22 ·
Spare Comparison, and unfair comparison

Got the 235 wide (31.72" tall) installed.
Attached is a pic comparing it to the 32.2" tires height wise.

Also attached is a pic of the OEM spare (on the rim), vs the 235/85r16 (off the rim). Its a bit unfair since the rim is almost wider than the tire, but still....

Once installed, I figure it saves me around an inch of clearance, or maybe just a bit less.
 

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#23 ·
Got the 235 wide (31.72" tall) installed.
Attached is a pic comparing it to the 32.2" tires height wise.

Also attached is a pic of the OEM spare (on the rim), vs the 235/85r16 (off the rim). Its a bit unfair since the rim is almost wider than the tire, but still....

Once installed, I figure it saves me around an inch of clearance, or maybe just a bit less.
Did you have any trouble with the larger OD when you were mounting it back under the truck? I measured the gap between the OEM spare and the metal shield on the passenger side and it looks like it will clear. I was more concerned about where the tire touches the black bracket near the receiver. Probably not an issue, but just wanted to make sure before I make a change.

I'm thinking I'll probably change my spare to 265/75R16 (nearly the exact same OD as the 265/70R17s I just put on). I measured the positioning of the tire, and after breaking out the geometry it looks like even with the 1" larger OD the tire will still not be lower than the rear differential.

FYI - with 265/70R17s the ground clearance at the rear differential is 9.5" if anyone was wondering.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Thanks for the info. I went ahead and got the 265/75R16 and it fits under the truck fine.

I also went ahead and made a set of gap guards for the rear wheel well. I used a utility floor mat from lowe's and cut it into strips. Pretty happy with the look in general. It's not a perfect material match, but is basically the same. I'm not planning on doing anything for the front, unless you guys think it would be better to do so. I'm ok with the look in the front, and I don't think anything in that area can really get damaged.
 
#26 ·
I also went ahead and made a set of gap guards for the rear wheel well.
Those turned out great! I need to get building.


It's not a perfect material match, but is basically the same.
wont matter once you have some mud on it.

Great job.

Still liking those new Kumhos?
 
#28 ·
Okay my current set up is a 2 inch level with 275s. I'm currently rubbing only when I turn left. Right turns are great. So if I add the 1.25 body in addition to my 2 inch level do you guys think it will actually help or eliminate my left turn rub? I also have 1.25 inch Bora Wheel Spacers currently installed as well. My running seems to be at sharp turns to left on front inner fender and on slight left turns to the outer back corner of fender. All that being explained, will that 1.25 Body help me or will I be wasting time, money, and energy? I do not think I'm hitting any bars due to having my spacers.
 
#29 ·
Sorry guys, that post was meant for my thread. That being said, the original poster of this thread has been very insightful and tremendously helpful with his detailed descriptions. Thank you for all that knowledge man. Huge help to me!
 
#32 · (Edited)
Im really digging your set-up. Sits nice and no rubbing. Let me do an overview in case i missed something.

1.75" suspensionmaxx leveler

1.25" rough country body lift

1" autospring rear add-a-leaf

6mm wheel spacers (4mm recommended)

275/70-17 bfg ko's on stock wheels

Is this correct or was there any changes that i missed?
Is there anything you'd recommend doing differently if you did it all over again besides going with the 2.5 fox shocks?
Thank you in advance
 
#33 ·
Im really digging your set-up.
1.75" suspensionmaxx leveler no Diff drop was used (to recoup the cost you could sell this to others with +2" lift if you feel like I did that the cv angles were good).

1.25" rough country body lift - yup, single happiest item done, zero drawbacks to doing this lift. Mild and looks better for it (IMO).

1" AutoSpring rear add-a-leaf - yes currently deliberating if I go to Sumo springs vs. the add a leaf, but I have all winter to decide.

6mm wheel spacers (4mm recommended) - jury is still out on this mod. If my the swaybar adapter I am having fabricated eliminates the sway bar rub (at the very-very-very last portion of the turn), then I am going to try pulling the spacers off. Should have more news in 2-3 weeks when I have the part in hand.

275/70-17 bfg ko's on stock wheels - Stock rims KO2's (are the new name with better sidewalls).

Is this correct or was there any changes that i missed? (the sway bar adapter. I would wait until I get feedback on it, since the spacers may not be needed.

Is there anything you'd recommend doing differently if you did it all over again besides going with the 2.5 fox shocks?
  • I am opting for the ICON, since I like the firmer response on the road.
  • I still rub, but very little compared to my first attempt.
  • If you are going to put on mudflaps, you may have to get inventive. It could add a bit of rubbing on that rear portion of the front fender. - depending on the manufacturer of your mudflaps.

That's pretty much it. So far I have been trail running and roking with it and its held up perfectly. And don't forget to take pictures.
 
#43 ·
Hello, a few questions..

1.What size spacers did you use?

2. By using spacers, will this mess up your wheel alignment in anyway?

3. Dumb question, but you would only use spacers on the front wheels right? So buy a set of 2?

4. How easy was it to remove that front lower fascia?

5. By getting 275/70R17 BF Goodrich KO2 tires and running spacers, you have zero rubbing now anywhere?

6. By getting bigger tires like 275/70R17 BF Goodrich KO2, how will this effect the electronics, speedo, ect? Will anything have to be recalibrated? And who would do that and how much would it cost?

7. Will these bigger tires void factory warranty?

Sorry for all the questions, but there is probably other people wondering about some of this too, that might help get a straight answer..

Thanks..
 
#44 ·
Sorry for all the questions, but there is probably other people wondering about some of this too, that might help get a straight answer..

Thanks..
Np with the questions, some should be answered in the two or three posts. Let me see if i can help.
1. Wheel spacers - top of page three 6mm.
Leveler Spacers - first page - 1.75"
2. if my mess up you mean continually damage, no. Good hub centric spacers should be like a wheel with larger offset? So no impact. Could you require an alignment after putting them on, yes.
3. A matter of opinion here, but no, I would put spacers on all four corners.
4. easily the longest portion of the body lift, 6 screws, 6 plastic pegs, and about an hour, take your time, be careful.
5. Spacers, body lift, suspension lift, sway bar relocators yes, no rubbing now.
6. depending on the size your speedo could be off by 1% - 3% some remaps will allow you to recalibrate. I just look at the speedometer when i am going 70 and know I am going 76mph.
7. Longer discussions and endless debates on countless threads. If the dealer can somehow blame larger tires on the part that breaks, no its not covered. If your throttle breaks, they can't blame it on your tires.

Hope this helps.
 
#45 ·
Bought the "drewabbs" lift for my Colorado with some sweet Black Friday savings. Parts should start coming in next week. You should get a commission. This thread and all the work that went into it made my life a lot easier. Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#46 ·
Thanks Dre. So a set of four 6mm 6x120 wheel spacers will work?

Do you happen to know where I can find these wheel spacers to purchase? I looked around online and could find any.


Also I do not have a body lift on my truck and didn't want to add one. I have a 2.5" coil extender lift in the front and a 1" block on the rear springs. I would hope this would be enough lift for the 275s..

Also where would I get a sway bar relocation kit? And will I actually need one in addition to the wheel spacers?

Thanks
 
#49 ·
Off topic, but, did you paint your all terrain badge to match the body color?
 
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