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Discussion Starter #1
I'm spending $500 a month on home heating oil. That's bull**** Bob.

I think the Saudis are getting enough of my money thank you.

Stop whining and start DELIVERING TO THE MARKET , decent cars and trucks that can get 40mpg.


GM Exec Stands by Calling Global Warming a “Total Crock of Shitâ€
 

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Re: Lutz: Global Warming a “Total Crock of <img src=

koogles said:
I'm spending $500 a month on home heating oil. That's bull**** Bob.

I think the Saudis are getting enough of my money thank you.

Stop whining and start DELIVERING TO THE MARKET , decent cars and trucks that can get 40mpg.


GM Exec Stands by Calling Global Warming a “Total Crock of /forum/images/smiles/censored.gifâ€
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I heard that from GM in 1974 RangerBob.

I spent last week driving around the Dallas suburbs in a Aveo. I averaged 27.3 MPG in almost all highway driving. :roll:

The Prius is out 8 years now. While Toyota stuggles to keep up with demand for it, Lutz says they don't make economic sense. The guy's a dinasaur who's ideas should have been put out to pasture a long time ago. The fact that he's still there, to me, say volumes about GM.

My guess is we both probably feel strongly about a viable future for the US automotive industy but the American car makers needs customers not sycophants.
 

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The Prius does not make sense. Over the 10 year lifetime of a Prius - the H2 is actually better for the environment AND cheaper to operate and maintain.


Go do a little research about the dust-to-dust cost of the Prius and then come back here and tell us you still think it makes economic sense.
 

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Re: Lutz: Global Warming a “Total Crock of <img src=

koogles said:
I'm spending $500 a month on home heating oil. That's bull**** Bob.

I think the Saudis are getting enough of my money thank you.

Stop whining and start DELIVERING TO THE MARKET , decent cars and trucks that can get 40mpg.
Wait....your arguement against Lutz's comments that global warming is a crock of **** is that you're spending $500 a month on heating? :?

And sorry, but making cars and trucks that get 40MPG isn't as simple as: Ok, go. Hell, its hard to increase the mileage of cars and trucks by 10%, let alone double it.

If you're really that concerned about fuel mileage, than you shouldn't be driving a truck. Get a motorcycle, or hell, get a bicycle.

And what speed was your highway driving in that Aveo? Slow down to 55 and you'll get much better gas mileage....probably at least 35mpg. But most people don't think its worth it to drive that slow...just like people don't think its worth it to drive cars that are more fuel efficient than SUVs/Trucks, regardless of whether or not they need the functionality of them.
 

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global warming is not manmade anyway, it's the earth's natural climate shift that has been happening ever since it has existed, so yes, global warming is bs.
 

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Solar Activity Diminishes; Researchers Predict Another Ice Age

I love how these scientists are say global warming this, and global warming that.. these are the same morons who cant tell us what next weeks weather is going to be and we are supposed to believe them that they know what the weather will be in 20 years.

Global warming is nothing but a scare tactic. You want to focus on something focus on global pollution.
 

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^ true that. littering is lame.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
rangerbob said:
The Prius does not make sense. Over the 10 year lifetime of a Prius - the H2 is actually better for the environment AND cheaper to operate and maintain.


Go do a little research about the dust-to-dust cost of the Prius and then come back here and tell us you still think it makes economic sense.

Someone once told me with complete conviction that he believed the world isn’t running out of oil because oil wells refill themselves over time.

Are there environmental impacts to the manufacture of any automobile? Of course there are. But spend a minute and research your dust to dust claim RB. Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius#_note-80 and take a look at footnote 87.

The truth is more likely that GM is having difficulty competing in this segment and might even support directly and/or indirectly, claims like the one you mention. Rather than compete in the segment, GM's response seems to be to spend millions on a campaign to promote a green image http://chevy.nytimes.com/ while continuing to rely on sales of inefficient vehicles with large, high performance engines.

It makes me want to ask who’s the crock of **** here RB?

Today, oil supply margins are so thin, a comment from the leaders of Venezuela or Iran or some further political turmoil in the ME, West Africa, South Asia, South America….or any of the other politically unstable places that source the world's oil, even a weather event in the Gulf of Mexico, can put a dollar or two on a gallon of gasoline in almost no time at all.

Globalization and the explosion in the growth of a middle class in places like China and India, with billions of bright, hardworking people, aspiring to a lifestyle like ours, will continue to have a profound impact on world oil supplies into the foreseeable future. And in the context of this, Americans’ disregard for their consumption of oil will continue to impact our balance of trade, the environment, our economic security, our national security, inflation……

Questioning GM's commitment to producing energy effecient automobiles or initiating a discussion about what should be done about our energy predicament shouldn’t be taken as a threat or an insult, by GM or the fans of its products. On the contrary, not having one is…. and continues to be.

Nor is GM entirely responsible for the habits and preferences of the American consumer. What "is" essential though is that we recongnize we have a problem, stop talking about it and begin to act.

My daily ride is a 2001 Toyota Echo. It gets about 40 mpg.
 

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koogles said:
It makes me want to ask who’s the crock of /forum/images/smiles/censored.gif here RB?
First - I never said this so do not make it sound like I did.

koogles said:
Someone once told me with complete conviction that he believed the world isn’t running out of oil because oil wells refill themselves over time.
What does this persons lack of common sense, knowledge, and intelligence have to do with this discussion? Again - do not imply that I am saying anything like this as I'm not.

koogles said:
Are there environmental impacts to the manufacture of any automobile? Of course there are. But spend a minute and research your dust to dust claim RB. Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius#_note-80 and take a look at footnote 87.
Wikipedia is not necessarily a 100% accurate source. I'll go look at this reference but I want you to know this.

koogles said:
The truth is more likely that GM is having difficulty competing in this segment and might even support directly and/or indirectly, claims like the one you mention. Rather than compete in the segment, GM's response seems to be to spend millions on a campaign to promote a green image http://chevy.nytimes.com/ while continuing to rely on sales of inefficient vehicles with large, high performance engines.
Here you are ignoring the fact that they are actually developing new applications. Just because they don't have them now doesn't mean they aren't coming. Marketing, in my eyes, is to keep them in the public eye.

koogles said:
Today, oil supply margins are so thin, a comment from the leaders of Venezuela or Iran or some further political turmoil in the ME, West Africa, South Asia, South America….or any of the other politically unstable places that source the world's oil, even a weather event in the Gulf of Mexico, can put a dollar or two on a gallon of gasoline in almost no time at all.
And another reason is because the speculating traders have run up the price in search of easy money.


koogles said:
Globalization and the explosion in the growth of a middle class in places like China and India, with billions of bright, hardworking people, aspiring to a lifestyle like ours, will continue to have a profound impact on world oil supplies into the foreseeable future. And in the context of this, Americans’ disregard for their consumption of oil will continue to impact our balance of trade, the environment, our economic security, our national security, inflation……
Why does this have to do with our discussion? I'm not denying this.....

koogles said:
Questioning GM's commitment to producing energy effecient automobiles or initiating a discussion about what should be done about our energy predicament shouldn’t be taken as a threat or an insult, by GM or the fans of its products. On the contrary, not having one is…. and continues to be.
Again I say it takes time to develop products. It's not an instant thing. They also have to find an application that makes sense and has a big enough margin and demand that they won't be loosing (more) money.


koogles said:
rangerbob said:
The Prius does not make sense. Over the 10 year lifetime of a Prius - the H2 is actually better for the environment AND cheaper to operate and maintain.

Go do a little research about the dust-to-dust cost of the Prius and then come back here and tell us you still think it makes economic sense.

Nor is GM entirely responsible for the habits and preferences of the American consumer. What "is" essential though is that we recongnize we have a problem, stop talking about it and begin to act.

My daily ride is a 2001 Toyota Echo. It gets about 40 mpg.
 

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Perhaps I'll add a few comments to "fuel" the fire.....some is off subject....

Wikipedia rewrites history well.

Oil supply margins are NOT thin. Speculators hold almost have of all oil contracts, and therefore is an enormous market force. ~$20 /barrel is added.

The government can typically only create a supply, at our expense. There has do be a demand for a supply to be economically feasible. However, by passing the CAFE standards, the government created a market response demand for SUVs. At that time, station wagons were the family vehicle, yet were considered "cars" and most could not meet the standards. An SUV was considered a truck, and were exempt. Voila! The SUV was born as a child of those who now hate it.

GM may produce what they think is economically feasible. It will be their loss only if what they produce is not successful in the marketplace. They are in the business to make money for their shareholders. I bought a gas Coly because I liked the product they made. GM made me happy. My glee, and others, will help satisfy the shareholders.

Global Warming is a crock. The next time someone tells you that CO2 drives temperature, ask them how they can account for methane (CH4). Atmospheric methane concentrations have followed along with CO2, yet we do not spew it. The only logical solution is the reverse, that temperature drives CO2 and CH4. See also info on the Lake Vostok ice cores.

The new phrase is "Climate Change", which allows the Global Socialists much more flexibility in the control of our lives. Our state now has an "Office of Climate Change", which is quite fashionable.

Water vapor is the principle greenhouse gas, which can absorb much more radiation, and at greater wavelengths, than CO2. Water Vapor 94%, CO2 4%. I hope they don't ban clambakes.

Oil is not a fossil fuel. Replenishment takes a long time in human terms

We have enough low-sulfur coal (to liquify) in the US to supply our demand for oil for the next 200 years. We also have a lot of oil reserves. Lets have at it !

How are we gonna produce the electric in order to plug those little electric hybrid toys in?

Ethanol requires much more energy to create "dust to dust" (as Ranger Bob says), than it's worth. Government subsidies for ethanol have done quite well to raise the price of food and feed while propping up the failing pursuit.

The Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 bars the federal government from purchasing fuels whose lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions are greater than those from fuels produced from conventional petroleum sources. Ironically, it bans the Fed from buying oil from Canadian tar sands, and all biofuels (ie, ethanol), which therefore make the Fed reliant on foreign oil. That's mighty swift....

In banning incadescent light bulbs, no one at the government bothered to a home's heat value lost must be made up by the heating system. Please pass the oil...hold the mercury...
 

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TexZR2 said:
Solar Activity Diminishes; Researchers Predict Another Ice Age

I love how these scientists are say global warming this, and global warming that.. these are the same morons who cant tell us what next weeks weather is going to be and we are supposed to believe them that they know what the weather will be in 20 years.

Global warming is nothing but a scare tactic. You want to focus on something focus on global pollution.
finally people are catching on AMEN Tex!
 

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Re: Lutz: Global Warming a “Total Crock of <img src=

koogles said:
As part of a campaign against higher fuel economy standards, Lutz wrote in a 2006 blog posting that forcing automakers to sell smaller cars would be “like trying to address the obesity problem in this country by forcing clothing manufacturers to sell smaller, tighter sizes.â€
 

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rangerbob said:
The Prius does not make sense. Over the 10 year lifetime of a Prius - the H2 is actually better for the environment AND cheaper to operate and maintain.


Go do a little research about the dust-to-dust cost of the Prius and then come back here and tell us you still think it makes economic sense.
FTW. The environmental impact of mining for nickel required to produce the batteries for the Prius is equivalent to the additional pollution of an H2. Then once you take into account the shorter life-span & higher maintenance of a Prius - a Hummer is cheaper / more eco-friendly.

This nickel is mined in Northern Ontario (Canada). The mining process has turned the land into so much of a baron wasteland - that NASA uses it to test their rovers for Mars explorations.
 

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Well I just have a question, which you would you rather drive, a electric car that buzzes around? Or a Truck That you love? This wll seperate the tree huggers from the Gas lovers :). Theres no way we are going to be able to keep up the trend of mudding, or racing when these suggestions come into play. Personally I don't want to see a 50-80mph race, just not exhilerating, along with mudding you would get stuck in a foot size mud puddle(In which you can tell these are my favorites lol). Not beefing on global climate change because it is true, but its the natural cycle of our weather. We can change pollution but we need to start at factories and other places like that that I would suppose puts out 80% or more of it. Vehicles arnt the big problem, and im not a tree hugger at all believe me, but let me add another thing, our ozone layer is the only problem, and it would take 100's of years for a dramatic effect to happen in which nothing has happened yet.
 

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First off, I'm all about sustainability and minimizing the waste of natural resources, but I believe that "global warming" is just the earth's cycle, just like how the north and south poles have reversed many times in Earth's history. What would the excuse for that be if it happened tomorrow?
But if you're going to blame CO2 for global warming, maybe take a look at the suburban sprawl that has been going on since after WW2. Look at how many millions of acres have been cleared, paved, etc. and how long the average commute is now. Suburban sprawl caused increased commutes, and therefore increased CO2 levels.
See if you can find if China's average temperature has shot upward, as they have exploded in growth over the last 5-10 years with highway systems, millions of new automobiles, and unregulated pollution from coal burning power plants.

Whats more environmentally friendly? 8 Prii (plural for Prius?) each with one passenger, or 1 Tahoe with 8 passengers? You really have to look at the PPG (people per gallon).

koogles: Just do yourself a favor and turn off the news, theres too many doomsdayers already. Ignorance is bliss in some respects.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Re:

VTCanyon06 said:
First off, I'm all about sustainability and minimizing the waste of natural resources, but I believe that "global warming" is just the earth's cycle, just like how the north and south poles have reversed many times in Earth's history. What would the excuse for that be if it happened tomorrow?
But if you're going to blame CO2 for global warming, maybe take a look at the suburban sprawl that has been going on since after WW2. Look at how many millions of acres have been cleared, paved, etc. and how long the average commute is now. Suburban sprawl caused increased commutes, and therefore increased CO2 levels.
See if you can find if China's average temperature has shot upward, as they have exploded in growth over the last 5-10 years with highway systems, millions of new automobiles, and unregulated pollution from coal burning power plants.

Whats more environmentally friendly? 8 Prii (plural for Prius?) each with one passenger, or 1 Tahoe with 8 passengers? You really have to look at the PPG (people per gallon).

koogles: Just do yourself a favor and turn off the news, theres too many doomsdayers already. Ignorance is bliss in some respects.

Leaving land use policy to developers and corporations is and has no doubt been short sighted.

If you've filled up lately or bought a gallon of milk, it's pretty evident that the market is way ahead of consumers and politicians on energy use decisions.

Ignorance = ignorance VT, not bliss.
 
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