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You just made it. According to the OM the capacity is 20.6 gal. Am I the only one who got an OM with his truck?:wink2:
No, you are just the only one that seems to refer to it. Too much trouble for many to go get it out of the glove box. Hint: they are available online, a couple of key strokes away.
 

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Problem with that thinking is that every time you fill up the fuel tank the stream of fuel causes what's in the tank to slosh around. Less so if you always fill up around 1/2 tank, but the issue of sediment/debris shouldn't be an issue with plastic tanks as that was largely due to internal corrosion over time with metal tanks.

I've owned multiple vehicles that had over 100k miles and some with almost 200k put on them before they were sold, frequently filled up below 1/4 tank, and not once have I ever lost an in-tank fuel pump or had an issue with debris plugging up the sock connected to the pump inlet. The whole "never run below 1/4 tank" is just an old ghost story people tell around the campfire and it won't die (much like the fuel pumps unless they actually suck air for long enough >:) ).
Filling would stir up stuff too, unless you sat and waited several hours before leaving the pump, and again more the more empty the tank is. Again, that's what filters are for. I'm not suggesting it would harm the pump, and with plastic tanks I wouldn't even worry too much about the filter.
 

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No, you are just the only one that seems to refer to it. Too much trouble for many to go get it out of the glove box. Hint: they are available online, a couple of key strokes away.

Actually the framing of my post was in deference to paper lovers. One of the first things I do when I buy something is go find the digital version of the manual. Paper may be the only thing I dislike as much as odd numbers.:grin2:
 

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Problem with that thinking is that every time you fill up the fuel tank the stream of fuel causes what's in the tank to slosh around. Less so if you always fill up around 1/2 tank, but the issue of sediment/debris shouldn't be an issue with plastic tanks as that was largely due to internal corrosion over time with metal tanks.

I've owned multiple vehicles that had over 100k miles and some with almost 200k put on them before they were sold, frequently filled up below 1/4 tank, and not once have I ever lost an in-tank fuel pump or had an issue with debris plugging up the sock connected to the pump inlet. The whole "never run below 1/4 tank" is just an old ghost story people tell around the campfire and it won't die (much like the fuel pumps unless they actually suck air for long enough >:) ).
Agreed,

I've done dozen and dozens of fuel pumps (mostly GM BTW lol) and I never remember seeing any dirt/whatever in the bottom of them (plastic tanks). Never remember having a sock plug up either. I've seen lots of fine dirt/rust in filters though after lots of miles, like 100k.

I've never read/seen a service manual, TSB, anything about running low on fuel, could be out there but I've never seen it. My theory is it could possibly damage the pump physically to catch air then fuel repeatedly, not overheat it. Just because they are made of plastic. The thing was probably going to fail soon anyway too. ;)

It's ok to talk about fuel pumps near the campfire, but don't replace one there. :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #25
I always go to empty whenever possible because less fuel = less weight = better mileage. It may not make a big difference but it adds up over time. When I say empty, I don't mean EMPTY EMPTY, I mean reasonably empty.
 

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LOL - okay Dad.

I have actually filled my tank with 19 - 20 gallons on a few occasions. Once even got 20.5 gallons. So, I can vouch for the 21 gallon tank size.

Gusto!
Also overfilling is bad damages the Evap system. The most I’ve put in my truck was 18 gallons and some change even on empty unless you really run it down you have a 2-4 gallon reserve idk what it is on our trucks
The evap canister on most vehicles will cost $300 and up and usally are a pain to change. Dad gives good advice........
I did not know this. Good information to store away next time I think, just one more gallon........

Gusto!
How is it damaged? I always put in at least a gallon over after the gas clicks off. Seems like it always clicks off early and when I get in I am a hair under the full mark. As if there was some venting problem or something...never had that happen before with prior vehicles.
I think this explains it. Also I do top off just to get to a round number ur whole dollar

https://www.angieslist.com/articles/car-myth-or-fact-should-you-top-your-gas-tank.htm
The tank is larger than 21 gal. I heard its very similar to the Silverado tank. Having a diesel which has no evap system in it, I have put in 23 gallons when the DIC displayed LOW FUEL LEVEL instead of a range left...that went all the way to the top of the filler neck.
The EVAP canister is there to store fuel vapors from the fuel tank that are vented back to the canister, so they can be returned to the engine thru the Purge Valve and be burned off thru the exhaust to cut down on air pollution. When overfilling, liquid fuel can enter the canister thru the vent tube in the upper filler neck, and liquid fuel saturates and damages the charcoal in the canister and too much fuel to be burnt off. Kind of an explanation of why NOT to top off the tank after the pump shuts off.
Ok...makes sense. I read some articles in those links in the prior posts and there is no debate about it. But the numbers just don't jive up. I average 18.4 mpg and my fuel page say distance to empty is less than 30 miles...which means I have less than 2 gallons of gas left in the tank. I use the Chevy app to confirm this. When I fill up, I expect to at least put 18 gallons of gas in the tank and it cuts off at 16.5~17.3. I start the truck and the gauge is a hair below the full line. Something is not right...so I slowly put in an extra gallon and the gauge reads right. I had a Ford F-150 before this truck and a Nissan Pathfinder prior to that one...and their fuel pages were always spot on...numbers always jived. So either the Chevy computer/sensors/whatever are out of whack or the system is designed in such a manner that the fuel pump cuts off to early. Does this mythical reserve storage come into play here? I don't recall seeing it in the owner's manual and the service managers I have talked to don't know anything about it.
What they said.
 

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Old wive's tale. The fuel pumps are cooled by fuel/gas flowing THROUGH them and not by being submerged IN the fuel.

It's similar to the argument that running low will suck up more crap from the bottom of the tank. Fuel is ALWAYS pulled from the bottom of the tank, if there's crap down there then it will get disturbed and sucked up no matter what the fuel level is.

Tell that to the overheated fuel pump because I was low on fuel in my Mustang. I sat on the side of the road until it cooled. Drove it to the gas station and filled it up. I haven't let it get that low since and I haven't had any pump problems either. That was ten years ago.
 

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Tell that to the overheated fuel pump because I was low on fuel in my Mustang. I sat on the side of the road until it cooled. Drove it to the gas station and filled it up. I haven't let it get that low since and I haven't had any pump problems either. That was ten years ago.


A one time experience with one vehicle 10 years ago isn’t proof of anything. Sorry. Something was already wrong if that happened.


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A one time experience with one vehicle 10 years ago isn’t proof of anything. Sorry. Something was already wrong if that happened.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And you saying it's an old wives tale doesn't make it so either. At some point, the fuel in the tank will warm up and won't be able to cool the pump as effectively. It was a really hot day and the tank was low. I thought I pulled a stupid and ran out of gas. After a while I restarted the car and drive to the station. Never happened again since that day. Still have the same fuel pump too. It may not be coming, but it does happen.
 

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And you saying it's an old wives tale doesn't make it so either. At some point, the fuel in the tank will warm up and won't be able to cool the pump as effectively. It was a really hot day and the tank was low. I thought I pulled a stupid and ran out of gas. After a while I restarted the car and drive to the station. Never happened again since that day. Still have the same fuel pump too. It may not be coming, but it does happen.
This actually relates to a question I've had. For some reason I'm not certain of, it was my understanding that modern gasoline fuel pumps located in gas tanks recirculate the fuel back to the tank. I think it's designed to keep the fuel near the engine from getting too warm and prevent vapor lock. Is my understanding correct?

I bring it up because I had a 1970 something Fiat X-1/9 I drove straight through from Seattle to San Francisco that developed vapor lock, and had symptoms rather similar to what weasel describes. At the time I didn't know what was causing the problem, but I had to keep the fuel tank over half full to continue on the trip without issue. I thought it was making the job easier for the fuel pump (which I believe was outside the gas tank on that vehicle) by reducing the pump height, but it might have been cooling the fuel.
 

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I'll use the term modern loosely, but you are not entirely wrong. A return system will help, but it's the pressure from the pump that prevents the vapor lock. Most of the newest vehicles don't have a return line due to emissions. In the case of your Fiat, I'd bet that the pump was weak. The head from a full tank would help in that case we opposed to the cooling benefit from a full tank.
 

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I'll use the term modern loosely, but you are not entirely wrong. A return system will help, but it's the pressure from the pump that prevents the vapor lock. Most of the newest vehicles don't have a return line due to emissions. In the case of your Fiat, I'd bet that the pump was weak. The head from a full tank would help in that case we opposed to the cooling benefit from a full tank.
As to the term "modern," keep in mind I'm over 60. :grin2:

Thank you. I did have the fuel pump tested before the return trip, and it checked out okay, and it never happened again (and the return trip did not involve driving straight through). So I think it was heat related. I may have had them change the fuel filter, but it's unlikely that was a problem unless I picked up a bad load of gas. Back in those days changing fuel filters was a maintenance item for me.
 

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And you saying it's an old wives tale doesn't make it so either. At some point, the fuel in the tank will warm up and won't be able to cool the pump as effectively. It was a really hot day and the tank was low. I thought I pulled a stupid and ran out of gas. After a while I restarted the car and drive to the station. Never happened again since that day. Still have the same fuel pump too. It may not be coming, but it does happen.
What EXACTLY do you think happened to the pump? Do you even know for sure the problem was the pump? Did you check the fuel pressure? I'm guessing you were just guessing it was the pump. No?

Not trying to be an ass, just curious.

I think it's a good thing when pumps fail when you are low on fuel, makes it easier to change ;)

Seen my fair share of full tanks too though. It takes longer to remove and replace the fuel than replace the pump.
:laugh:
 

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I'll use the term modern loosely, but you are not entirely wrong. A return system will help, but it's the pressure from the pump that prevents the vapor lock. Most of the newest vehicles don't have a return line due to emissions. In the case of your Fiat, I'd bet that the pump was weak. The head from a full tank would help in that case we opposed to the cooling benefit from a full tank.
I would say vapor lock went away with pumps in tanks.

Zero head, is that the correct way to say it?
 

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Agreed,

I've done dozen and dozens of fuel pumps (mostly GM BTW lol) and I never remember seeing any dirt/whatever in the bottom of them (plastic tanks). Never remember having a sock plug up either. I've seen lots of fine dirt/rust in filters though after lots of miles, like 100k.

I've never read/seen a service manual, TSB, anything about running low on fuel, could be out there but I've never seen it. My theory is it could possibly damage the pump physically to catch air then fuel repeatedly, not overheat it. Just because they are made of plastic. The thing was probably going to fail soon anyway too. ;)

It's ok to talk about fuel pumps near the campfire, but don't replace one there. :laugh:
From ACDelco (The OEM Manufacturer of GM and many other fuel pumps): " Maintaining proper fuel levels aids in cooling the pump, which, in turn, adds to its longevity. It’s important to remember that constantly running your vehicle with a near empty fuel tank can cause the pump to fail." - from: https://www.acdelco.com/auto-parts/fuel-pumps/fuel-pump-module.html

There you go, from the horses mouth.
 

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From ACDelco (The OEM Manufacturer of GM and many other fuel pumps): " Maintaining proper fuel levels aids in cooling the pump, which, in turn, adds to its longevity. It’s important to remember that constantly running your vehicle with a near empty fuel tank can cause the pump to fail." - from: https://www.acdelco.com/auto-parts/fuel-pumps/fuel-pump-module.html



There you go, from the horses mouth.


“Near empty” != “less than 1/4 tank.”

The concern is sucking air during accelerating, braking, cornering, hills which will accelerate wear and cause them to run hotter.

Nothing to worry about if you’re not low enough to suck air.

But, not a big deal either way. I fill up between 1/8-1/4 tank before I head home from work just so I don’t have to deal with filling up in the morning.


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From ACDelco (The OEM Manufacturer of GM and many other fuel pumps): " Maintaining proper fuel levels aids in cooling the pump, which, in turn, adds to its longevity. It’s important to remember that constantly running your vehicle with a near empty fuel tank can cause the pump to fail." - from: https://www.acdelco.com/auto-parts/fuel-pumps/fuel-pump-module.html

There you go, from the horses mouth.
Awesome find!

Thanks!

Now we get to argue over how much fuel is "near empty" AND how long is "constantly"

:grin2:
 

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Awesome find!

Thanks!

Now we get to argue over how much fuel is "near empty" AND how long is "constantly"

:grin2:
I'd argue it's impossible to constantly run the tank near empty, because you'll run out of gas. Maybe they're assuming someone would repeatedly fill the tank with $1 of gas. DON'T DO THAT! ;-)
 
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