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Discussion Starter #1
For the emissions compliant tunes such as from GDE, that bump the power up by a significant margin plus reduce the EGR usage; if such an improvement was possible, why didn't Chevy/GM do this from the factory? There must be a logical reason and corresponding trade-off. Was Chevy just being sure they pass emissions by a fat margin? Or maybe the power was turned down so the user could pretty well run it at 100% without worry of breaking any hard parts? Does the new tune increase EGT possibly shortening the life of the emissions parts (DPF, SCR)?

Everything in life has trade-offs, I'm just trying to understand this one to help me make a decision on buying the tune when my warranty is up. Truth be told, I would personally prefer a reduced-EGR tune that kept the stock power numbers, though I do understand that might not sell as well to the general public as a power boosting tune.
 

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I tend to agree with you, but if one was to not pound the go pedal all the time I think you would be fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I tow a lot, both stop and go and highway. The transmission takes a beating in stop and go towing as it is, so I'm curious if the extra power would cause the torque converter or transmission to wear out significantly faster than with a stock tune when doing a lot of towing. And does EGT with the new tune run significantly hotter than the stock tune when towing on the highway?
 

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Not sure about the newer trucks, but the transmission settings in the older ones were way too "soft" with lots of slipping going on. Tuning the trans to shift more firmly has to help it live longer. The factory engine tuning leaving quite a bit to be desired would not surprise me though, as the OEM transmission settings on my '17 were such a complete mess.
 
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You can’t touch EGR if you want to maintain factory emissions.

That’s the nicest way I can put that. If they are really claiming less EGR then it’s probably worth an investigation. The fines for this are severe.
 

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2018 GMC Canyon Denali 2.8l diesel
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i havent looked into tunes much, but i would assume that calling a tune "emissions legal" that it has passed a tailpipe sniffer test. if it can pass a sniffer with less use of the egr i cant see the problem.
 

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i havent looked into tunes much, but i would assume that calling a tune "emissions legal" that it has passed a tailpipe sniffer test. if it can pass a sniffer with less use of the egr i cant see the problem.
A sniffer test is a complete joke. To be emission street legal you need to pass the following EPA mandated emission tests, same as original manufacturer: FTP75, HWFEC, US06 and SC03 To date Green Diesel Engineering is the only after-market tune that has accomplished this.

Snipesy, There are no legalities pertaining to EGR directly, you just need to meet tailpipe requirements in the said four tests above.

FYI, we have the emission results posted on our website for all to see, including the EPA. The trade-offs are clear in those results. We thought it was a good idea to lower CO2, since this is a virtually a 1:1 inverse relation to fuel economy.
 

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I'm surprised people think that GM is the end all be all when it comes to any aspect of their vehicles. Sure they are good, heck even down right decent at most things, but not the best. This is why the aftermarket exists...
 

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car manufacturers have to compromise. they have to make a decent product within a budget so the vehicle is competitively priced, and it also has to be reliable and not only last through the warranty period, but the target is to last much longer. its a very complex balancing act. it also has to pass NVH standards along with emissions and safety.

the aftermarket exists because a small portion of vehicle buyers want to make things better. often you sacrifice something when modding a vehicle, be it noise emission, longevity, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
A sniffer test is a complete joke. To be emission street legal you need to pass the following EPA mandated emission tests, same as original manufacturer: FTP75, HWFEC, US06 and SC03 To date Green Diesel Engineering is the only after-market tune that has accomplished this.

Snipesy, There are no legalities pertaining to EGR directly, you just need to meet tailpipe requirements in the said four tests above.

FYI, we have the emission results posted on our website for all to see, including the EPA. The trade-offs are clear in those results. We thought it was a good idea to lower CO2, since this is a virtually a 1:1 inverse relation to fuel economy.
@GreenDiesel great to see you here! Can you comment at all on how the tune and the extra power might affect the longevity of any of the parts in the powertrain and exhaust assuming the use case of frequent towing?

For the record I'm a big supporter of what you do, I'm just trying to understand all aspects of a new tune. I'm an engineer so I tend to over analyze. :)
 

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the way my truck was stock, it would’ve killed the trans way before 100k. I had shudder and black fluid. At 35k..
GDE tune and hp lv fluid made shifts way better than it ever did by a large margin. After 40,000 miles on the fluid, it is still perfectly clear and red. Will have to see what the long term affect will be using this setup but I can say for sure, it will last much longer than how my truck was delivered.
 

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A sniffer test is a complete joke. To be emission street legal you need to pass the following EPA mandated emission tests, same as original manufacturer: FTP75, HWFEC, US06 and SC03 To date Green Diesel Engineering is the only after-market tune that has accomplished this.

Snipesy, There are no legalities pertaining to EGR directly, you just need to meet tailpipe requirements in the said four tests above.

FYI, we have the emission results posted on our website for all to see, including the EPA. The trade-offs are clear in those results. We thought it was a good idea to lower CO2, since this is a virtually a 1:1 inverse relation to fuel economy.
THE authority has arrived! Are your tunes 100% legal per the EPA (honest question from someone who would very much like to run a legal tune)? I assume the warranty is still out the window. What are the tradeoffs referenced in the OP?
 

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THE authority has arrived! Are your tunes 100% legal per the EPA (honest question from someone who would very much like to run a legal tune)? I assume the warranty is still out the window. What are the tradeoffs referenced in the OP?
The last paragraph in their post tells you that info is on their site. ;) The test results are below and are EPA-compliant because they don't exceed any emissions limits.

 

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Compliant =/= legal. If I build an addition to house that is 100% code compliant, but don't pull the permits, it's not legal.
Actually, compliant DOES mean legal in this regard. The EPA even has a "National Compliance Initiative" to crack down on non-compliant products and companies. Any aftermarket company that produces software or hardware products for use on emissions-compliant vehicles has to be able to prove such products don't violate the Clean Air Act and vehicles with these modifications don't exceed EPA emissions limits. That is what GDE has done.

The reason the GDE tune isn't available in California is because CARB has different requirements and any non-factory hardware or software has to be given an E.O. number by CARB in order to pass emissions because of the non-factory calibration ID that would be reported.
 

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That sounds convincing enough to me. I read through their site this evening, and saw the CARB exclusion.

I'd still like to know what the compromise is. GM gives us a compromise of a tune to maximize certain parameters. They have a different tune for the military application that maximizes different parameters. What is GDE's tune maximizing, and what are they sacrificing relative to stock? This is more or less the exact same question as the OP phrased slightly differently.
 

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IIRC, the military trucks have no emissions equipment or requirements.

The 6L50 for the diesel trucks has a maximum input torque rating of 550Nm which is around 406lb-ft (going by memory). The GDE tune brings the crankshaft torque up to around 420lb-ft peak, again going by memory based on their dyno numbers and doing some math. So there's that, but that also doesn't mean imminent failure.

Based on my experience with my truck towing when stock and monitoring everything I'd have no problem running it at WOT as long as necessary without exceeding any temp limits or triggering any derating. Could that be done with the GDE tune? I have no idea.

Pushing the envelope does make the weaker links easier to find, factory tunes I'm sure are trying to meet fuel efficiency, reliability, and performance targets as best as possible. When it comes to the aftermarket, choose 2. The 3rd is likely to take a hit to a certain degree.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
 

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Based on my experience with my truck towing when stock and monitoring everything I'd have no problem running it at WOT as long as necessary without exceeding any temp limits or triggering any derating. Could that be done with the GDE tune? I have no idea.
this is exactly the info i want to know. other diesels im used to the tuners have multiple levels, either on a switch or a handheld loader with multiple tunes for different applications. GDE doesnt do this. im quite interested to know if their tune is safe for max towing.
 

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IIRC, the military trucks have no emissions equipment or requirements.

The 6L50 for the diesel trucks has a maximum input torque rating of 550Nm which is around 406lb-ft (going by memory). The GDE tune brings the crankshaft torque up to around 420lb-ft peak, again going by memory based on their dyno numbers and doing some math. So there's that, but that also doesn't mean imminent failure.

Pushing the envelope does make the weaker links easier to find, factory tunes I'm sure are trying to meet fuel efficiency, reliability, and performance targets as best as possible. When it comes to the aftermarket, choose 2. The 3rd is likely to take a hit to a certain degree.

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Interesting read.


Looks like GM has no problem giving the military 275 horsepower and 420 lb-ft of torque.
Though it appears some emissions modifications have been made.
 

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