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Discussion Starter #41 (Edited)
It appears the turbo is super accessible, like something you could swap out in a couple of hours easily I'd guess.

I'd be all in if it was just a turbo swap (with a core return) and a tune for about a grand for 40 horsepower.

Sadly I think my budget is unrealistic for this mod.
I think that as time goes on and the GM turbo gets more expensive they will start doing a rebuild/core program because the GM turbo will price their current plan out of the market.

They probably also want to see how stock turbos hold up and if they are reliable enough to trust a core program.

Or, along the lines of my first guess, a drop in non-GM turbo may come around once the price to do so makes more sense.

For now, I'm totes cool with just buying whatever they come out with. . .because I want it and I'm dumb like that :grin2:
 

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I think that as time goes on and the GM turbo gets more expensive they will start doing a rebuild/core program because the GM turbo will price their current plan out of the market.

They probably also want to see how stock turbos hold up and if they are reliable enough to trust a core program.

Or, along the lines of my first guess, a drop in non-GM turbo may come around once the price to do so makes more sense.

For now, I'm totes cool with just buying whatever they come out with. . .because I want it and I'm dumb like that :grin2:
Or why not just send in yours have them do the change and overnight it back. Be a lot cheaper and I'm sure a lot more people would do it.
 

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Or why not just send in yours have them do the change and overnight it back. Be a lot cheaper and I'm sure a lot more people would do it.
Problem with that service is I’d assume that’d be a min 2 week turnaround. And then what do i drive for 2 weeks?>:)
 

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A rebuilt turbo is as good as new.

They should buy 3 turbos to use as exchanges.

They would make more money cause they would sell way more units overall and frankly they could save a grand but cut the cost $800 and we would all buy it. They'd have more profit.
 

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A rebuilt turbo is as good as new.

They should buy 3 turbos to use as exchanges.

They would make more money cause they would sell way more units overall and frankly they could save a grand but cut the cost $800 and we would all buy it. They'd have more profit.

I am not sure a rebuilt turbo is as good as a new one from Garrett. Garrett has very tight tolerance specs for rotating imbalance and tests this at their end of line at 2-3 rpm test points. Say around 50,000 rpm, 100,000 rpm and 150,000 rpm. This machine is very expensive, I am not aware of any rebuild shop that has similar capabilities. Many of these rebuilt turbos may only have a 10,000 to 50,000 mile life vs. a factory Garrett that can last up over 300,000 miles.
 

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Well if they mount a new wheel on it, the balance is no good anyways. So somebody's got to balance it.
Correct?
 

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I'd hope it wouldn't take 2 weeks to do a turn around on a wheel change. But for people who have an extra car it would be feasible.
You thinking of shipping a 20ish lbs (guesstimate) turbo overnight ‘cause standard ground shipping is 5 business days? That’d be 2 weeks alone unless people plan on forking over baller $$$ for premium shipping service.

but i digress
 

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Part of what was breaking rods on the compounds was that very fast low end surge. With a solid tune and a gradual and linear torque, the truck should be fine with turbo upgrade.

GDE, my hat is off to you for sharing that information and makes me understand your tuning approach even more. I’m catching up some Christmas bills and posts like that makes it easier to hand you the keys (engine) to a 45k vehicle. Just awesome.
That must just be poor tuning then. The turbo boost should have no effect on the torque curve since its a diesel and AFR's dont matter. If they were spiking to 40PSI at 1500 RPM or something then they probably shouldnt have been trying to spray so much fuel to match it.

If it was my Ecoboost and it spiked to 25 psi and they had to keep the AFR in check, then sure that makes sense.

More air flow at higher RPM doesnt necessarily mean it needs more boost. Inter cooler piping stuffs shouldnt be effected unless boost is increased
It does if they dont open up the hot side. How the hell do you put more mass flow through the same turbine without causing increased back pressure and work on the engine. Keeping a GT17 turbine is gunna be like blowing through a coffee stirrer eventually. To overcome that exhaust pressure you need to add more boost. They need to be moving up to a GTB20 or 22 if they want more reliable power.

This is how guys who put bigger turbos on their car can make the same or more hp with less boost. You swap the coffee stirrer for a garden hose and your volumetric efficiency goes up.

What about a out of the box cheetah turbo?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It may not be bolt on. A lot of these turbos have custom flanges and what not for the specific vehicle. A GTB2056 from a Mercedes wont fit on an Audi.

GTB2056VKL off a Mercedes


GTB2056VK from VAG
 

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It does if they dont open up the hot side. How the hell do you put more mass flow through the same turbine without causing increased back pressure and work on the engine. Keeping a GT17 turbine is gunna be like blowing through a coffee stirrer eventually. To overcome that exhaust pressure you need to add more boost. They need to be moving up to a GTB20 or 22 if they want more reliable power.


Right now in stock form 1 turn of the turbine wheel = 1 turn of the compressor wheel which allows X amount of air into the engine. Making the compressor side larger will still do the same but for the same turn you will get X + whatever the new compressor allows.

Youre mixing up, what you SHOULD do with what you HAVE to do. Yes efficiency wise it would make sense to open the hot side. But NO you dont have too increase the hot side to get more air in.

Additionally if one were to delete, you already make a significant improvement in exhaust flow rate so that alone should suffice in aiding hotside performance.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Right now in stock form 1 turn of the turbine wheel = 1 turn of the compressor wheel which allows X amount of air into the engine. Making the compressor side larger will still do the same but for the same turn you will get X + whatever the new compressor allows.

Youre mixing up, what you SHOULD do with what you HAVE to do. Yes efficiency wise it would make sense to open the hot side. But NO you dont have too increase the hot side to get more air in.

Additionally if one were to delete, you already make a significant improvement in exhaust flow rate so that alone should suffice in aiding hotside performance.
Deleting addresses exhaust flow after the turbo (an in effect helps pre turbo to an extent.) His concern is pressure between the head and the turbo, which is where people measure and refer to "pressure ratio". When they say it's 2-1 or 3-1 etc, they mean the pressure pre-turbo is 2 (or 3) times that of the boost pressure. You're fighting yourself when the ratio gets too high and a larger exhaust side on the turbo is required to alleviate that.

I don't know if that's a limiting factor on our trucks or not, but it does become a limiting factor at some point when you're only increasing the compressor wheel size. At some point,the intake side is just moving far more air than the exhaust side can physically allow through.
 

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Deleting addresses exhaust flow after the turbo (an in effect helps pre turbo to an extent.) His concern is pressure between the head and the turbo, which is where people measure and refer to "pressure ratio". When they say it's 2-1 or 3-1 etc, they mean the pressure pre-turbo is 2 (or 3) times that of the boost pressure. You're fighting yourself when the ratio gets too high and a larger exhaust side on the turbo is required to alleviate that.

I don't know if that's a limiting factor on our trucks or not, but it does become a limiting factor at some point when you're only increasing the compressor wheel size. At some point,the intake side is just moving far more air than the exhaust side can physically allow through.
Oh i understand. Just just saying technically you dont have to increase the hotside to get more airflow. Not doing so will effectively choke out the turbo earlier in the RPM range but up until that choke point you can get more air if you just increase the compressor side.
 

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That must just be poor tuning then. The turbo boost should have no effect on the torque curve since its a diesel and AFR's dont matter. If they were spiking to 40PSI at 1500 RPM or something then they probably shouldnt have been trying to spray so much fuel to match it.

If it was my Ecoboost and it spiked to 25 psi and they had to keep the AFR in check, then sure that makes sense.
I’m sure tuning was part of it... I said tuning for a more gradual climb, meaning better tuning. But the other part is... that trying to have instant low end torque with a big high end from the sequential set-ups. Even on the EcoBoost we had to skate a line on how high the the tq peaked early in the rpm (mostly a fueling issue of hitting the pumps limits at low rpm loads so apples and oranges).

What I am saying, slightly clearer, is motors do not like abprupt peak tq... it’s a lot more load and shock to internals than rounding that curve some versus making it look like an exponential curve. Those early set-ups had to pull some that power out on the low end and feed it back into the mid.

A bigger turbo isn’t a bad thing (within reason) unless you’re asking your turner to give you 450 lbs of torque at 1400 rpms, let him give you that at 2400 rpms and that is less load on the internals.
 

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any update for aftermarket turbos

Im tired of waiting, but while I have no real information, I dont think its going to happen. Has anyone else heard otherwise.
Thanks
 

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Im tired of waiting, but while I have no real information, I dont think its going to happen. Has anyone else heard otherwise.
Thanks
Not the kind of thing you want to make a new topic for when we already have this thread. Perfectly acceptable to bump this, so youve been merged in here
 

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sorry for the new topic, yes should have been a bump. Im just beyond bored with the lack of aftermarket parts coming out. And yes I know theres some compound kits but thats more for a full motor build which Im not looking for.
Any info is appreciated.
Thanks,
Brian
 
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