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I didn't sample the oil in this unit until 47k mi. Results posted here. Fe and Al levels are high and could be cause for concern, but I'm going to watch them during subsequent intervals. Engine is unmodified and no use of oil additives, only fuel conditioner about every other tank. I'm inclined to go to a 5/40 oil but the truck has another 50k worth of extended warranty, and we all know how quickly a non-dexos2 oil would be used to void a warranty claim in the event of catastrophic failure (hole in piston etc), despite the oil type not being of relevance to the failure mode.
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I didn't sample the oil in this unit until 47k mi. Results posted here. Fe and Al levels are high and could be cause for concern, but I'm going to watch them during subsequent intervals. Engine is unmodified and no use of oil additives, only fuel conditioner about every other tank. I'm inclined to go to a 5/40 oil but the truck has another 50k worth of extended warranty, and we all know how quickly a non-dexos2 oil would be used to void a warranty claim in the event of catastrophic failure (hole in piston etc), despite the oil type not being of relevance to the failure mode.
Interesting, we're using the same oil, same intervals but my wear metals are 50% yours but truck has almost 2x total mileage.
 

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My latest report. Note the wear metals have stayed very low across all the reports. T6 5/40 since early on is treating my engine right. :)

To explain their notes, I bought was I thought was two gallon bottles of 5/40 T6, inadvertently got a bottle of 15/40, and used 2 quarts of that with the gallon bottle of T6 5/40. It seemed to use a bit less oil this time, using 1 quart in 7,500 miles, where it normally would use 1.5 quarts. I went ahead and put the remaining 2 quarts of 15/40 in with the gallon of 5/40. I think I will keep making this "mistake" from now on.
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Interesting, we're using the same oil, same intervals but my wear metals are 50% yours but truck has almost 2x total mileage.
I had this unit as part of my fleet for its first 35k mi before I just took it as my personal vehicle. While oil changes were performed on-time, it surely encountered a lot of short trips and spent a good deal of time sitting at idle (pretty high engine hours for the mileage) as an employee truck. No mechanical failures as of yet, it consumes zero oil between intervals, and its mpg is where I'd expect, so I'm not too worried (that and the warranty). Like I said, I'll watch it during subsequent changes and see what pattern develops.
 

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Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty. This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions

According to the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act, the onus would be on GM or another automaker to prove that a non-manufacturer oil damaged the engine. If dealers deny the warranty claim without first investigating it, they are in violation of the act, Smith says.

Consumers just need to make sure that any alternate oil they use is comparable in quality to the automaker's specified oil.
Dexos is a hustle by GM to take advantage of consumers’ fear and ignorance of MM. If any OE requires you to use a product to maintain warranty coverage it must be provided free of charge. Period. It’s the law.

I didn't sample the oil in this unit until 47k mi. Results posted here. Fe and Al levels are high and could be cause for concern, but I'm going to watch them during subsequent intervals. Engine is unmodified and no use of oil additives, only fuel conditioner about every other tank. I'm inclined to go to a 5/40 oil but the truck has another 50k worth of extended warranty, and we all know how quickly a non-dexos2 oil would be used to void a warranty claim in the event of catastrophic failure (hole in piston etc), despite the oil type not being of relevance to the failure mode. View attachment 421457
I didn't sample the oil in this unit until 47k mi. Results posted here. Fe and Al levels are high and could be cause for concern, but I'm going to watch them during subsequent intervals. Engine is unmodified and no use of oil additives, only fuel conditioner about every other tank. I'm inclined to go to a 5/40 oil but the truck has another 50k worth of extended warranty, and we all know how quickly a non-dexos2 oil would be used to void a warranty claim in the event of catastrophic failure (hole in piston etc), despite the oil type not being of relevance to the failure mode. View attachment 421457
 

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Dexos is a hustle by GM to take advantage of consumers’ fear and ignorance of MM. If any OE requires you to use a product to maintain warranty coverage it must be provided free of charge. Period. It’s the law.
Yeah, I am VERY well aware of the M-MWA as it pertains to branded products and aftermarket additions. Unfortunately, I have spent more time in court on this issue than almost every forum member on the internet combined. I have also had several vehicles re-purchased via Lemon Law in my time, starting with a brand new 1996 Dodge Ram 1500 5.9L 4x4 that only seemed to run on 8 cylinders when it was in the shop. When you've dealt with as many vehicles as I have, it becomes part of the playbook.

However, it's not just as easy as flexing the words "Magnuson-Moss" at your dealer, you actually have to spend a significant amount of time and money in court to execute this process, and there are myriad nuances which open the claim to convolution. It's not a court of justice and you are guilty until proven innocent. I have learned first-hand that it's going to be far less headache for me to simply abide, especially when I have little material to gain by pushing it (I already paid for the warranties, and if the dexos2 gets me to where I want to go, 100k mi, then why bother?). I mean no disrespect, I have just had at least five hundred people try to tell me about the M-MWA without having experienced the process themselves, you know? I've learned it's not a hill I'm interested in dying on.

Edit: By the way, you are not wrong. It IS a revenue-driven hustle.
 

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The pertinent question is, has there ever been a documented engine failure with or without warranty being denied, (bearings, cylinders, piston, piston rings, cranks, pins,timing chain, etc) on the 2.8 or even the V6 that was running well prior to using 5w40 in the engine, that was directly attributed to the use of 5w40? A real tear down report that came back with 5w40 as the direct cause of failure?!
 

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Of course I have no way of knowing for certain, but my guess would be "NO." I see little means for a reputable 5/40 HDEO to cause such a failure. And the onus of proof SHOULD be on them to prove it did, but my experience in court has evidenced otherwise, which is why I won't bother going through it again. I don't mean to further derail this thread. My apologies.

The pertinent question is, has there ever been a documented engine failure with or without warranty being denied, (bearings, cylinders, piston, piston rings, cranks, pins,timing chain, etc) on the 2.8 or even the V6 that was running well prior to using 5w40 in the engine, that was directly attributed to the use of 5w40? A real tear down report that came back with 5w40 as the direct cause of failure?!
 

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The pertinent question is, has there ever been a documented engine failure with or without warranty being denied, (bearings, cylinders, piston, piston rings, cranks, pins,timing chain, etc) on the 2.8 or even the V6 that was running well prior to using 5w40 in the engine, that was directly attributed to the use of 5w40? A real tear down report that came back with 5w40 as the direct cause of failure?!
Dexos 2 is a C3 oil and they both come in 5w40. You can buy Dexos 2 5w40 online.

How do they prove it even is 5w40 with used engine oil? I

As long as you have have a receipt that shows Dexos 2 was purchased (or reserved) and an OE filter was installed you can put in whatever you want and return the other stuff.
 

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Of course I have no way of knowing for certain, but my guess would be "NO." I see little means for a reputable 5/40 HDEO to cause such a failure. And the onus of proof SHOULD be on them to prove it did, but my experience in court has evidenced otherwise, which is why I won't bother going through it again. I don't mean to further derail this thread. My apologies.
Well, that is the "thing". Everyone gets all excited about what oil to use or not use and at least in my experiences over the last 30 years of driving diesels, I've never heard of an oil viscosity/brand / non-oem approved, etc, etc, being the cause of a failure. Assuming that the proper levels were maintained!!!! My TDI has 400k on it and we drove our Iveco trucks all to hell and back on 5w40 (million miles on some of those) and I've had 5w40 in the Z71 since the first oil change (28k on it now) and see no reason to get excited about a failure. I'm tuned on both of these and clearly the TDI is out of any warranty but like the service manager and I agreed on the Z71 when we discussed the tune early on, that if GM can determine that any failure was caused by the tune, so be it but be capable of proving it. Otherwise GM would most likely have to support the repair on their dime. I still drop in from time to time (last was the DEF recall) and we still agree on how a warranty would be handled should something go wrong. IF tune related and can be confirmed, it's on me. If not, its on GM. Of course that could all go out the window should all the lawyers get involved but so far the relationship with my local GM folks has been positive. Lawyers gotta be lawyers!!! Anyway, I just can't get too excited worrying about using a non-Dexos rated oil in the Z. Cheers
 

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Sadly, nobody who is tuned that I am aware of has been able to get GM to pay for engine failure. I suppose anything is possible, but RockyMtnMax said, doing so is a "hill that is not worth dying on".
 

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Sadly, nobody who is tuned that I am aware of has been able to get GM to pay for engine failure. I suppose anything is possible, but RockyMtnMax said, doing so is a "hill that is not worth dying on".
Could be.. Might also be dependent on the tune they did. If they are trying to boost 75+ HP and rump load of torque, they could run into claims issues if something went wrong.
My tune was @45Hp and maybe 75 ft.lbs. Somewhere in that range.
In my case I was pretty much resigned to "self insuring" no matter what, but the benefits were substantial enough to justify in my mind.
 

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Could be.. Might also be dependent on the tune they did. If they are trying to boost 75+ HP and rump load of torque, they could run into claims issues if something went wrong.
My tune was @45Hp and maybe 75 ft.lbs. Somewhere in that range.
In my case I was pretty much resigned to "self insuring" no matter what, but the benefits were substantial enough to justify in my mind.
The likely scenario is the dealership checks the flash count on the ECM and if it is greater than it should be you are out of luck, even if the stock tune is flashed back on it. The "aggressiveness" of the non factory settings wouldn't enter in.

My truck is a '17, the thought of the engine having a defect in it that could cause it to blow up never entered my thought process. I take care of my vehicles and have never had an engine problem in my life. I bought my Canyon and tuned it at 10K miles before the stories of lost engines started to show up.

Be that as it may, I am glad I tuned it. EGR is off, oil stays clean, it runs great, transmission shifts great, oil analysis looks great and I enjoy driving it so much more than I did when it was stock. It would completely suck and piss me off to no end, but fortunate that if the engine does let go, I have the resources to have it fixed. So I continue to enjoy my Canyon, take steps that I believe will help protect it (fuel additive each tank, 5/40 T6 oil) and simply not worry about it.
 

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As a consumer and enthusiast, I want to be able to make changes to MY property and yet have the manufacturer stand behind their design and workmanship, provided my alterations didn't DIRECTLY cause the failure.

As a manufacturer, however, I warranty my product against defects and workmanship under the exact specifications as I defined and manufactured them. You change my specs and you get no guarantees from me, because those are no longer my design parameters. There are many layers to a Root Cause Analysis, and it is VERY easy for me to demonstrate a way in which a simple alteration you made can have a detrimental effect on my parameters, no matter how far upstream you think your alteration is from the failure mode.

THIS is why the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act only offers superficial protection for an end-user of a designed system. As a systems designer and manufacturer myself, I get it. Thus, it is not a hill worth dying on... For me. But each person applies unequal weighting to the value of their alterations, and I will never tell another person they should or should not do something to their own property. I will only share my experiences. To each their own.
 

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The likely scenario is the dealership checks the flash count on the ECM and if it is greater than it should be you are out of luck, even if the stock tune is flashed back on it. The "aggressiveness" of the non factory settings wouldn't enter in.

My truck is a '17, the thought of the engine having a defect in it that could cause it to blow up never entered my thought process. I take care of my vehicles and have never had an engine problem in my life. I bought my Canyon and tuned it at 10K miles before the stories of lost engines started to show up.

Be that as it may, I am glad I tuned it. EGR is off, oil stays clean, it runs great, transmission shifts great, oil analysis looks great and I enjoy driving it so much more than I did when it was stock. It would completely suck and piss me off to no end, but fortunate that if the engine does let go, I have the resources to have it fixed. So I continue to enjoy my Canyon, take steps that I believe will help protect it (fuel additive each tank, 5/40 T6 oil) and simply not worry about it.
It is amazing how clean the engine runs with a tune that cuts EGR off!
As you note, these trucks are just "different" with a tune and in a most pleasant way. The stock truck was nice but with a tune, they are fantastic and such a pleasure to drive.
I'm with you on the fuel treatment and oil spec. I think these things will run well and with less shenanigans for a long time using these products.

Take care
 

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As a consumer and enthusiast, I want to be able to make changes to MY property and yet have the manufacturer stand behind their design and workmanship, provided my alterations didn't DIRECTLY cause the failure.

As a manufacturer, however, I warranty my product against defects and workmanship under the exact specifications as I defined and manufactured them. You change my specs and you get no guarantees from me, because those are no longer my design parameters. There are many layers to a Root Cause Analysis, and it is VERY easy for me to demonstrate a way in which a simple alteration you made can have a detrimental effect on my parameters, no matter how far upstream you think your alteration is from the failure mode.

THIS is why the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act only offers superficial protection for an end-user of a designed system. As a systems designer and manufacturer myself, I get it. Thus, it is not a hill worth dying on... For me. But each person applies unequal weighting to the value of their alterations, and I will never tell another person they should or should not do something to their own property. I will only share my experiences. To each their own.
Yes sir, I get it and one can only do what they feel comfortable with. No "right or wrong" on this type of thing as long as you know what you could possibly be faced with should something go bump in the night.
Not long after the dreaded "Diesel Gate" debacle arose, there was all kinds of talk on the TDI forums about what could be done to regain the loss of HP and torque that was going to take place once the new software was loaded on.
Many folks jumped on the idea of a tune and at least from what I've seen in the intervening years, VW hasn't said "do-do" with their hands in it to an owner with a tune. In fact, not long after I did mine in 2016, within @ 2500 miles the DPF filter went crazy and had to be replaced along with some ancillary items in the system. Local VW shop knew I had the tune (one of their own service writers had the same tune on his TDI) and didn't blink an eye over it. Tune addition wasn't germane to the failure anyway but they in theory could have gotten testy about it. That was 100k ago and its still running well at 440.4k as of this week.
Only problem now is for me to get an EO/ 50 State approved tune before registration renewal next year! It's always something. Ciao
 

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THIS is why the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act only offers superficial protection for an end-user of a designed system.
agreed

ive been kicking around car forums for 20 years or so now, have always seen the mythical MM act referred to by people who are just 100% sure theyll get their money back because "the tune I have is safe, theyll have to prove it caused the failure!" but havent once seen anyone get anything out of it. as Duken mentioned theyll check the ECU, and turn the tables, MM or not.
in vw land it was the TD1 flag.

car companies have lawyers on staff and can afford to tie you up forever fighting over that engine replacement and making it not worth your time.
 

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Yes sir, I get it and one can only do what they feel comfortable with. No "right or wrong" on this type of thing as long as you know what you could possibly be faced with should something go bump in the night.
Not long after the dreaded "Diesel Gate" debacle arose, there was all kinds of talk on the TDI forums about what could be done to regain the loss of HP and torque that was going to take place once the new software was loaded on.
Many folks jumped on the idea of a tune and at least from what I've seen in the intervening years, VW hasn't said "do-do" with their hands in it to an owner with a tune. In fact, not long after I did mine in 2016, within @ 2500 miles the DPF filter went crazy and had to be replaced along with some ancillary items in the system. Local VW shop knew I had the tune (one of their own service writers had the same tune on his TDI) and didn't blink an eye over it. Tune addition wasn't germane to the failure anyway but they in theory could have gotten testy about it. That was 100k ago and its still running well at 440.4k as of this week.
Only problem now is for me to get an EO/ 50 State approved tune before registration renewal next year! It's always something. Ciao
That's great that the dealer treated you well, it's nice to hear that. I had a few 2013 TDIs as part of the go-getter fleet, all 6spd Jetta wagons, and when I got the buy-back offer letters in 2016 I jumped all over them. All had 90k+ miles and they gave me checks for roughly 85% of their initial costs. I thought that was too good to pass up, and it actually ended up as a reason we bought the Duramax Colorados. Win-win!

I'll admit those Jettas performed very well for us. Almost 450k combined miles without a single real mechanical failure.
 

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It is amazing how clean the engine runs with a tune that cuts EGR off!
As you note, these trucks are just "different" with a tune and in a most pleasant way. The stock truck was nice but with a tune, they are fantastic and such a pleasure to drive.
I'm with you on the fuel treatment and oil spec. I think these things will run well and with less shenanigans for a long time using these products. Take care
No kidding!

I posted this pic in another thread but will repost here in response to your comment about how clean they run with EGR off. This photo was taken after pulling the filter at my last oil change, 7.5K miles on the oil here. It is shockingly clean, cleaner than I typically see with my gas engines. So much for diesels turning their oil black because they are diesels. I think with EGR off and with modern HPCR fuel injection and good tuning, diesels can run quite clean. Just posted my oil analysis report in the thread above, my wear metal numbers are among the lowest I have seen in any of the reports posted on the forum. No EGR and 5/40 T6 oil clearly is a great combo.

The way I see my 2.8 either it will go through Door #1 and have a major problem that really is a quality control issue that is GM's fault that I will have to eat the cost on because it is tuned and/or just out of warranty, or Door #2, it is gonna run a really long time. Fingers crossed for Door #2, so far so awesome. Closing in 5 years and 60K miles, it likely will cross 60K a few weeks ahead of the 5 year mark. After that the warranty is expired and it will be a bit of a milestone, as at that point having it tuned won't matter anymore, I would be equally screwed if it all goes awry. I refuse to bail on a great truck because of what "might" happen.

Will keep up my routine, hoping to put enough miles on it to have to change the cam belt (150K interval) at least a couple times :)

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No kidding!

I posted this pic in another thread but will repost here in response to your comment about how clean they run with EGR off. This photo was taken after pulling the filter at my last oil change, 7.5K miles on the oil here. It is shockingly clean, cleaner than I typically see with my gas engines. So much for diesels turning their oil black because they are diesels. I think with EGR off and with modern HPCR fuel injection and good tuning, diesels can run quite clean. Just posted my oil analysis report in the thread above, my wear metal numbers are among the lowest I have seen in any of the reports posted on the forum. No EGR and 5/40 T6 oil clearly is a great combo.

The way I see my 2.8 either it will go through Door #1 and have a major problem that really is a quality control issue that is GM's fault that I will have to eat the cost on because it is tuned and/or just out of warranty, or Door #2, it is gonna run a really long time. Fingers crossed for Door #2, so far so awesome. Closing in 5 years and 60K miles, it likely will cross 60K a few weeks ahead of the 5 year mark. After that the warranty is expired and it will be a bit of a milestone, as at that point having it tuned won't matter anymore, I would be equally screwed if it all goes awry. I refuse to bail on a great truck because of what "might" happen.

Will keep up my routine, hoping to put enough miles on it to have to change the cam belt (150K interval) at least a couple times :)

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Good call on keeping it. I'm going with Door # 2 as well and if something happens, oh well. I'll rebuild and keep on getting down the road with it. Odd, I don't really worry about doing SOAP samples on my cars. We had to do it on our turbine engines and APU's for years and very occasionally we would get a report of something about to go south (mostly on P&W's and Garrett / Honeywell powerplants) but with the new inspection intervals on the power plants we've been using the past 30 yrs, they rarely have to come off the wing to fix something and given what I do with the TDI and Z71, I believe we'll be fine as well but kudos to you for keeping up on such tasks.
 
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