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1. I did my research and found overwhelming evidence that I'm in the right. Try to find an article or a testimonial to the contrary. Sometimes when you make a lot of bad publicity noise, businesses will take a hit to make you go away.

2. Who is to say I would have purchased the truck with an additional 2000.00 price tag?

The loan has already been processed and I have a payment booklet for the amount on the purchase agreement. They don't check to see if the taxes the dealer quotes are accurate either. I'm banking (no pun intended) on the financial institution forcing their hand to process the title.
 

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I think this is where ihe crux of the issue is. They WILL be making extra money by collecting the 2000.00 from me. The vehicle cost, doc fees, taxes, GAP (declined, extended warranty (declined) etc etc that a dealer gets is all rolled into one lump sum the buyer takes a loan for. One way or another the dealer HAS to pay the taxes. The BUYER is not paying taxes, he gives money to the dealer to pay the taxes. So in that bucket of money, the one thing that is certain the dealer must part with is the taxes. So any additional money from me is profit.

The loan has already been processed and I have a payment booklet for the amount on the purchase agreement. They don't check to see if the taxes the dealer quotes are accurate either. I'm banking (no pun intended) on the financial institution forcing their hand to process the title.
Huh?

The Dealer assigned the finance contract to the Bank. While a finance charge is charged on the total cost, including the sales tax, the Dealer will get none of it. The Bank will make a small interest rate (whatever your APR is) on the $2,000 for 36 months. Yes, the Dealership might get a small referral fee from the Bank for assigning the deal to the Bank, which is not always the case, but I imagine the "additional bucket of money" and "pure profit" you refer to is probably less than a few hundred dollars, if anything.

As to your second point, the Dealer doesn't pay the taxes, the Dealer (like every other retailer) collects the taxes and transmits them to the State. Its like saying the sales tax on a six pack of beer is pure profit for the grocery store.

As to your third point, that you are banking that the Bank will not want the actual title is also wrong. The Bank just made an unsecured loan at a lower interest rate than is customary in comparison to a secured loan, and the Bank is out of compliance with the Federal Reserve (if a National Bank) or a State Financial Board (if a State Bank). Banks charge way more for unsecured loans (if they even make them, most don't) than secured loans; and Banks have guidelines with the Federal Reserve which govern their interest rates. These internal rules will compel them to call a default on the loan and ding your credit back to 500. So now, your unwillingness to pay the taxes makes the Bank's loan non-compliant with their regulatory agencies once they find out, and they will when the Bank doesn't get the Title. Heck, the Dealership is now in trouble with the Bank, and will likely rat you out within a matter of days.

You don't seem to understand how this process works, which might be good for you, because you can play dumb.

Yeah, hire a lawyer. Let us know what his retainer is. I'll bet you a cookie with a fat raisin in it that the lawyer's retainer is more than the $2,000. Yeah, whatever you do, don't talk to the Dealership, don't be nice, be a jerk, refuse to pay the taxes, don't cooperate with the Bank, and let the Lawyer handle everything. You've done all the internet research, and now know everything. Let us know how it works out.
 

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Dear Shooter123,

Let it be. He isn’t interested in any advice that doesn’t fit his narrative. I’m sure that you have better ways to spend your time.
 

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Discussion Starter #105 (Edited)
Huh?

The Dealer assigned the finance contract to the Bank. While a finance charge is charged on the total cost, including the sales tax, the Dealer will get none of it. The Bank will make a small interest rate (whatever your APR is) on the $2,000 for 36 months. Yes, the Dealership might get a small referral fee from the Bank for assigning the deal to the Bank, which is not always the case, but I imagine the "additional bucket of money" and "pure profit" you refer to is probably less than a few hundred dollars, if anything.

As to your second point, the Dealer doesn't pay the taxes, the Dealer (like every other retailer) collects the taxes and transmits them to the State. Its like saying the sales tax on a six pack of beer is pure profit for the grocery store.

As to your third point, that you are banking that the Bank will not want the actual title is also wrong. The Bank just made an unsecured loan at a lower interest rate than is customary in comparison to a secured loan, and the Bank is out of compliance with the Federal Reserve (if a National Bank) or a State Financial Board (if a State Bank). Banks charge way more for unsecured loans (if they even make them, most don't) than secured loans; and Banks have guidelines with the Federal Reserve which govern their interest rates. These internal rules will compel them to call a default on the loan and ding your credit back to 500. So now, your unwillingness to pay the taxes makes the Bank's loan non-compliant with their regulatory agencies once they find out, and they will when the Bank doesn't get the Title. Heck, the Dealership is now in trouble with the Bank, and will likely rat you out within a matter of days.

You don't seem to understand how this process works, which might be good for you, because you can play dumb.

Yeah, hire a lawyer. Let us know what his retainer is. I'll bet you a cookie with a fat raisin in it that the lawyer's retainer is more than the $2,000. Yeah, whatever you do, don't talk to the Dealership, don't be nice, be a jerk, refuse to pay the taxes, don't cooperate with the Bank, and let the Lawyer handle everything. You've done all the internet research, and now know everything. Let us know how it works out.
While I'll let the insults roll off my back, I'll ask you (or anyone) to find articles or testimony that supports your assertions. I've found multiple that support mine.
https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-car-dealer-says-they-forgot-to-charge-me-tax/83299/95. A long read but scroll to the bottom to find how this turned out.

AND, I spoke to my friends brother who is a salesman at a dealership. He spoke to their finance guy who said they'd eat the error. So, all you naysayers who want to hurl insults, I say pony up some evidence, otherwise it's just your opinion with nothing to support it.
 

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Who is to say I would have purchased the truck with an additional 2000.00 price tag?
thats exactly it. when i bought my truck i had a number in mind i was willing to pay per month, and shopped based on that. i told the salesman this is the max im willing to pay per month on 72 months, you figure it out from there. took him 3 tries before he got a deal figured out. went to talk with the financing people, they told me they couldnt do the finance rate i was quoted and it was going to be $5.xx more a month, i told them either sort it out or ill walk away. end result is they figured it out. but yes, i was willing to walk away for $5 per month. it adds up to around $400 in the end.

$2k isnt a trivial adjustment in the payment, its right around $29 a month, and over the term ends up costing $2450. id be downright pissed about this. honestly id be telling them either they eat it, or that if the mistake is grounds to void the contract they need to reimburse you for improvements (the bed liner) and return your trade in. if your trade is already gone its going to put them in a tough spot.

where i am (bc canada) the title is required for the owner to register and insure the vehicle. the dealer cant hold the title (unless the vehicle is a lease, but thats a different deal) or else the vehicle cant be driven off the lot. car dealers of any sort, just like any retail business, is responsible for collecting the taxes. private vehicle sales have the taxes paid when registering the vehicle.

i worked for a company whose accountant misinterpreted some sales tax guidelines, and during a tax audit the government said nope that doesnt apply and the business was responsible for taxes that hadnt been collected. there was no legal recourse to go after the clients for the sales taxes they should have paid, but wernt charged. this is almost the exact situation your in.

my only advice would be to go talk to the sales manager. if you negotiated based on the monthly payment, tell them, and make sure they know that if the bottom line was higher it wouldnt have been a deal. i would also make sure you have any receipts you have for the bed liner or anything else you have done, along with proof of the payment you have made. i would be prepared to cancel the deal and walk away, but make sure they are reimbursing you for everything, including any fees incurred in financing. i would think that the costs to them associated with canceling the deal that they will be willing to play ball.
 

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When you buy a new motor vehicle from an Ohio dealership, the dealer will handle the vehicle title and registration paperwork for you.

What Do I Need to Bring to the Title Office?
State of Ohio BMV

The only way it can be titled is if the taxes are paid..... And Ultimately the Owner of the vehicle is legally responsible for that.

Yes the dealership might of made an errr and be willing to help... But the OWNER is legally responsible for the taxes
By owner, do you mean bank or dealer? The dealer normally transfers the title, and since the owner is whoever holds the pink slip, I would bet that means the dealer. Possession is 9/10 the law lol, time for the dealer to pay up.
 

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I totally agree.
But to answer Mr, White's post as to fault? Plenty to go around.

Dealer is primarily at fault for not having the right document or having the right document filled in incorrectly, which did not accurately set for the proper amount of sales tax. As others have pointed out, that is a stupid and negligent rookie mistake. Did the dealership do this on purpose? I doubt it, since they make no extra money by charging sales tax which goes to the government. There is no claim that the Dealer told the Buyer that the Dealer was going to pay the sales tax, which is sometimes a marketing plan. But perhaps the Buyer could lie and say yes, that was promised to me by the salesperson, hence the contract--otherwise, its a simple but stupid mistake.

Buyer is also at fault for not reading paperwork and realizing the mistake. I get it that the buyer is just an ordinary schmuck without tax, legal, or accounting training and I would not expect the typical buyer to go through these contracts with a fine tooth comb. But ultimately as pointed out by Mr. Herbert, the Buyer is supposed to pay sales tax. Whether the Buyer knew that or not or should have spotted that or not, is anyone's guess. But it doesn't change the dynamic that the Buyer is responsible for paying the taxes, whether he knew it or not. He made an honest mistake.

So where does this leave us? As pointed out by Mr. Herbert above, the Buyer has to pay the taxes to get the title released, plain and simple. If not, the dealer will not consider the transaction concluded and will not release the title to the Bank, and the Bank can declare a default on the loan and Buyer's credit goes down to 500. Buyer should pay the taxes, and if he feel he has been scammed, then sue the dealer in small claims court. Where this ends up in court could go either way, as there is a concept called mutual mistake which would void or rescind the contract, undoing the transaction. Or perhaps the small claims judge (in our state, a retired lawyer usually), could have some sympathy for the Buyer. Who knows?

Bottom Line: Buyer has to start talking with the Dealership to resolve this problem. $2,000 and his credit score is too risky to play "my di*k is bigger than yours" with the Dealership and Bank
Mr. Gherbert did not point out the Buyer, he pointed out the Owner.
 

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By owner, do you mean bank or dealer? The dealer normally transfers the title, and since the owner is whoever holds the pink slip, I would bet that means the dealer. Possession is 9/10 the law lol, time for the dealer to pay up.
Actually the owner until you purchase the vehicle... Was GM...... A title is issued by the State DMV to the Owner (Buyer) of the vehicle …
That is the person with the legal responsibility for the taxes.
The Vehicle has a Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO) First...Not a title until purchased.
 

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Actually the owner until you purchase the vehicle... Was GM...... A title is issued by the State DMV to the Owner (Buyer) of the vehicle …
That is the person with the legal responsibility for the taxes.
The Vehicle has a Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO) First...Not a title until purchased.
I thought it was used? This MCO thing only works for a new vehicle.
 

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Discussion Starter #115
@Smawgunner
Any news? I'm on the edge of my seat.
Not yet. I should be talking to our attorney tomorrow. I get 30 minute free consultation through my employer. Filed through the Attorney General but that'll be a joke. They provide a mediator but make no judgments or render any decisions. The dealership is radio silence. They have not sent anything to me in writing as of yet. Stay tuned 😆
 

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Simple points:
1) Sales Tax Rate in Ohio 5.75%. So $2,000 in sales tax would be for a purchase of $34,782.60
Sales Tax already paid was $73.58 which is a sales tax for $1,279.65

2) A contract is legal and can not be changed without both parties agreeing.

3) Buyer of the vehicle is legally responsible for the taxes on the vehicle.

Most of us have either been debating Point 2 or 3 in this thread.

But point 1 has been neglected.... An additional $2,000 in sales tax is for an additional $34,782.60 in Ohio. Something here is really off.
 
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Discussion Starter #118
Simple points:
1) Sales Tax Rate in Ohio 5.75%. So $2,000 in sales tax would be for a purchase of $34,782.60
Sales Tax already paid was $73.58 which is a sales tax for $1,279.65

2) A contract is legal and can not be changed without both parties agreeing.

3) Buyer of the vehicle is legally responsible for the taxes on the vehicle.

Most of us have either been debating Point 2 or 3 in this thread.

But point 1 has been neglected.... An additional $2,000 in sales tax is for an additional $34,782.60 in Ohio. Something here is really off.
I think there is a county sales tax on top of that.
 

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Not so simple points:

1) Sales Tax Rate in Ohio 5.75%. So $2,000 in sales tax would be for a purchase of $34,782.60
Sales Tax already paid was $73.58 which is a sales tax for $1,279.65
Also gherbert:
According to the Sales Tax Handbook, you pay a minimum of 5.75 percent sales tax rate if you buy a car in the state of Ohio. You need to pay taxes to the county after you purchase your vehicle and those rates can lead to an additional 2 percent payment at the time of purchase
Assuming the full 2% extra county tax, $2,000 is 7.75% of $25,806.45.
Add the $73.58 he already paid and it becomes 7.75% of $26,755.87.
That's not far off from the taxable price of $27,231.

2) A contract is legal and can not be changed without both parties agreeing.
Look up Contract Alteration. If there are terms/provisions allowing alteration then it can be changed without consent. There is also the chance that it could be voided.

3) Buyer of the vehicle is legally responsible for the taxes on the vehicle.
Not entirely true. In the link you provided, it is explained that the purchaser is responsible for paying taxes when buying privately, but when buying from a dealer it is different because the dealer calculates and collects the taxes as part of the sale...which would be typical of a retail transaction where the seller is normally responsible for sales tax. Scroll back up a few posts, this is why I brought up that the website says Owner rather than Buyer.
When buying from a car dealer, the transaction is fairly simple. The car dealer will calculate the taxes and title fees into a total amount that you will pay for the vehicle, and the title work will be completed for you.

Buying and Selling a Vehicle.
 

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Discussion Starter #120
Not so simple points:


Also gherbert:

Assuming the full 2% extra county tax, $2,000 is 7.75% of $25,806.45.
Add the $73.58 he already paid and it becomes 7.75% of $26,755.87.
That's not far off from the taxable price of $27,231.


Look up Contract Alteration. If there are terms/provisions allowing alteration then it can be changed without consent. There is also the chance that it could be voided.


Not entirely true. In the link you provided, it is explained that the purchaser is responsible for paying taxes when buying privately, but when buying from a dealer it is different because the dealer calculates and collects the taxes. Scroll back up a few posts, this is why I brought up that the website says Owner rather than Buyer.
 
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