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I did quite a bit of research before buying my truck, the older VM engines our motor is an updated version of were known to be quite reliable in the Holdens sold in Australia. They had some niggly issues, but nothing catastrophic like this, and generally seem to have a good reputation for longevity. Same story as the others in your case too, piston/wrist pin failure. GDE has been quiet on the specific results of their metallurgical analysis on similarly failed parts that they examined. It makes me wonder about GM sourcing engine parts out of Thailand, and the potential QC problems that may be causing. This is just stupid. Never before ever gave a thought to pistons and rods fragging in a modern engine. This **** simply should not ever happen.

The earlier VM engines were manufactured in Italy. The design is mostly the same, but the parts sourcing is different. Rod and piston kit anyone? I wonder of the OE VM parts for the older engines would fit in our trucks.

The way the wrist pin failures are showing up on the 2.8L, does not seem to an upgrade from the VM Motori engine in the Holden, since they seemed to be pretty reliable over the years.

GM has been building the 2.8L XLD in Thailand since ~2011, that is the engine used in the Holden starting with MY2012. The LWN is an "updated" version of that for the North American market, it's also built in Thailand like the XLD. The XLD wasn't/isn't built by VMM in Italy.


So, there's no reason to think this has anything to do with parts or the engine being from Thailand.
 

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Damn, those are some ugly photos.

A thought crossed my mind, the pistons are cooled by oil jets from underneath, a common practice. If the jet of oil was not spraying properly for some reason, that could cause this, but GDE would have seen that was amiss in the engine they looked at if that was the case. It really does just seem like bad metal.

Damn, is it possible to drop the pan, pull the head and change piston and pin sets? If so, and if something suitably cool to replace them with was available, I might consider doing it for peace of mind. My street bike has a stator that is known to grenade and take the engine with it. I paid $380 for an updated one from a later year and put it in. Peace of mind...

There are upgraded rods available but I think that's about it, they seem to rely on stock pistons and pins.


The cooling jets are to cool the pistons but not the wrist pins, if they're like most engines they are lubricated and cooled by the oil control rings channeling oil from the cylinder walls into channels/holes that force the oil around the pin.


I'm no expert, but that broken wrist pin looks more worn/scored than it should be and it looks like perhaps the pin was scored enough that it ended up making a clean fracture along the score line before breaking the rest of the pin. The coloration of the metal makes me think it also got very hot and made the metal brittle leading up to the fracture. But, I'm not a metallurgist or an expert, just making a guess. The question then would be what caused that? If the pins themselves aren't coming back as being the problem then I would think poor lubrication, such as from plugged or damaged oil channels/holes could be a possibility. Maybe? Wish we could get some definitive answers.
 

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Or a poor performing OEM oil?

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dexos2 has been the spec oil for the NA and International 2.8 since MY2012, if it were the oil then the Holden trucks should be seeing the same failure unless it's being triggered by NA emissions requirements. Could it be edge-case trucks like FCA had with the EcoDiesel and ACEA C3 oil and perhaps some of our trucks are seeing excessive soot from EGR that translates into sludge plugging up some of the passageways? Anything's possible. Weren't the EcoDiesel failures around similar mileages?


I realize the OP didn't want this to turn into another speculation and theory thread, but I'm not sure what else they expected us to reply with? >:)
 

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Oh no...don't turn this into another oil ash content thread!

Did OP use and additives in the diesel? Stuck injectors are a definite failure that seems to creep up around here...


Injector failure yes, stuck injectors no. The problem has been injector tip failure that results in diesel fuel going from an atomized mist with a good tip to a virtual diesel laser beam with a broken tip that ends up putting a hole in the piston. Different failure mode than these engine failures, IMO.


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A couple of hundred dollars on a DIESEL? Are you sure with rods, pistons, bearings, and all the gaskets and miscellaneous parts? I believe that you will find out that LT1 parts are a lot cheaper than Duramax parts. Wow, I do not see how you can do it for that. Sounds like you ought to get right on it. I am anxious to see how this turns out.
You realize there’s half the number of pistons and rods right? They’re both forged?

If you have links for parts, post it
16WhiteColly is still stuck on diesels being more expensive simply because they're diesel, he owns a gas truck but loves to throw in his opinions about diesels whenever the opportunity arises. The 2.8 Duramax isn't a very complex engine, much less complex than the V6, and while parts may be more expensive for the 2.8 because of a smaller market/demand the labor to do such work on our I4 is less than doing similar work on the V6 due to less complexity and fewer parts.

That doesn't stop him from finding excuses to denigrate the diesel, though.
 

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I may have a new data point not unlike this. Lost cylinder 4...seemingly less catastrophic as it ran... Just shook.... Was south of Grand Canyon pulling 6000lb trailer and thought I lost tire. Oil all over trailer... But seemingly is just turbos pressurizing crank case as oil seems to all be coming out rear main. Will update later as dealer in Flagstaff is still pulling stuff apart... Happened Monday.

If I were a betting man I'd wager it's injector tip failure and you now have a hole in the #4 piston which is allowing the pressure from the turbo and the fuel from the injector to flow right into the crankcase, diluting the oil and over-pressurizing the crankcase which has blown out a seal.


Definitely keep us posted! What a pain. :(
 

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Like my V6 and as far as me buying a 2.8L diesel, I would not give you 15 cents for a dozen of them.
And this is why you're given ****. You post incessantly in diesel threads, finding whatever excuse you can to denigrate them when you have NO FIRST-HAND EXPERIENCE with them and you make it very clear that you are anti-diesel.

What is your agenda here? You hate diesels so your goal is to drive people away from buying them and give crap to people that have problems?

You post up misinformation or claim opinion or rumors as facts as well. You are the definition of a troll. You should not be allowed to post in the diesel section.

Alas, ignore is about the only option we have.
 

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A couple of legit questions for you guys...I really haven't torn into any modern engines, so I found myself wondering....

What is considered "less complex"? (Number of cylinders aside).
Being an inline OHC engine vs an OHC V engine makes things much simpler, especially when it comes to things like timing chains/belts, variable valve timing, cylinder deactivation, etc. As an example in a previous thread I used a head gasket replacement as a comparison point, replacing the head gasket on one bank of the V6 is more expensive than replacing the head gasket on the 2.8 Duramax, the V6 is more involved/complicated and as such requires more labor time to do that work. Similarly, if you had a problem with one of the 3 timing chains on the V6 you're looking at $1,200-$1,800 to replace one (Combo discount would apply if you had to do multiple as some of the labor is the same and why it makes sense to address everything being touched if possible). The price to replace the timing belt on the 2.8 Duramax is roughly $800.

There's also a lot more room under the hood to work on the 2.8 compared to the V6. Diesels are subjected to higher forces/stresses than gas engines so they are generally more durable as a result, but there will always be a weak link in any mass-produced engine due to cost concerns.

Even among diesel engines some are simpler/easier to work on than others. Given the option, I will choose an inline engine over a V-type engine every day in a truck. I've owned and worked on gas and diesel engines of almost all types over the years; Cummins from 5.9L to 8.3L and in-between, 6.6 Duramax, 2.8 Duramax. Jeep inline 6, Ford V8s, HEMI V8s, and so on. You get a feel for what various engines and vehicles are like to work on, you know the ones you like and the ones you hate.

I'm a fan of diesels but I'm also a fan of V8s. Just depends on what my needs are. I won't tow with a V8 gas again nor will I race with a diesel.

Hope this helps. :)
 

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I have owned a diesel for years, a 5.9L Cummins, so I do know some about diesels. As far as posting, I am no quicker to post responses to the diesel than you are on the gasser, which you do not own either. You should not be allowed to post in the gasser section either. I am for that rule, I do not have any problem with that as long as it is for both of us.
My posts in the gas/non-diesel sections are NOT bashing the gas engines or finding reasons to complain about them, explain if or why the diesel is a better option, etc. I answer posts to be honest and helpful. Can you say the same about a lot of your posts in the diesel section? No, you cannot. You have no valid reason to want to keep me out of the gas/non-diesel section while here in the diesel section we have plenty of reasons to wish you'd take a hike. Most of your posts in the diesel section are taking digs at owners and their problems or spreading misinformation about what it's like to own a diesel.

And as far as antidiesel, I am not, just not a fan of the 2.8L Duramax, the way they are failing.
And you make that blindingly clear on a daily basis with your constant negativity and crap posts. Everyone knows how you feel. You can stop reminding everyone all the time.

Good day.
 

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Stop bickering.

Now someone answer my other damn question about the 2.8 ;)
Definitely a bit of work involved in doing that since the axle/suspension/steering are tucked under there, but I'm sure there's a "fast" way to drop that out and mimic the reverse of what they do on the assembly line. Haven't seen anyone do it yet, though.

If you scroll down a bit on this article there are some pretty good pics of the 2.8, bare block, crank, rods, pistons, etc.

2016 Chevrolet Colorado 2.8L Duramax Diesel ? First Drive
 
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Between 2000 and 2004, GM had trouble with the injectors on the full size Dmax. Their 'resolution' was to offer an extended warranty: 7 years or 200,000 miles. Perhaps something like this will be done for this problem.


I don’t recall those failures taking engines out, though, and when the injectors failed it was the not-so-simple task of replacing them with another set...that would eventually fail.

But before anything close to that warranty can happen GM needs to actually acknowledge that there’s a problem. So far we’ve got jack in that department.


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I was into the big Duramax Trucks back then. I seem to recall that one of the ways the injector could fail was stuck open, which of course would torpedo the motor if you didn't realize what was happening and turn it off. I am not 100% sure on that, but it is what I remember from back then.
I had an LB7 for a while. The telltale sign of the injector failure was smoke haze at idle due to the below issues, being stuck open was not one of the issues/symptoms. When an injector is stuck open it sounds like rod knock, there is no mistaking it. Plus there is tons of smoke as they have no DPF.

CONDITION
Some customers of 2001-04 model year Chevrolet Silverado, GMC Sierra; 2003-04 Chevrolet
Kodiak and GMC TopKick vehicles, equipped with a 6.6L Duramax Diesel (RPO LB7 - VIN 1)
engine, may experience vehicle service engine soon (SES) light illumination, low engine power,
hard start, and/or fuel in crankcase, requiring injector replacement, as a result of high fuel return
rates due to fuel injector body cracks, ball seat erosion, or high pressure seal extrusion.

Here's what those failed injectors look like...




A video explaining the failures...





Below are videos with an injector stuck open. Anyone that continues driving when hearing a noise like this is...well...probably not all that smart. It's not as if the truck drives normally and then just goes boom with no warning like is happening with some 2.8s.


 

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Ultra low sulfer diesel has much less lubricity than the old dirty diesel did.
I have read where more issues with injectors and especially injector pumps could be a major possibility with this ULSD fuel.
And the use of a quality fuel additive would help make these parts last longer.

Injectors and IPs engineered for ULSD are fine and last just as long as non-ULSD parts did with non-ULSD fuel. The CP3 is a great pump, the CP4 was crap initially. Not sure if it still is or if people were attributing the high failure rate to ULSD fuel but it was just a poor design.



On a gas engine the injector can spray fuel for the entire intake stroke. On a diesel spraying fuel into the cyl is done over a very small no. of degrees of rotation starting just before TDC. And shortly after TDC it’s just a waste of fuel.
The newer V6 engines in the twins are direct injection and work similar to a direct-injected diesel; High fuel pressure, injectors firing just before ignition during the compression stroke, etc. MPFI engines would use the intake stroke to pull the gas into the cylinders since it's indirect injection. Direct injection for gas engines also allows for higher compression ratios because the air/fuel mixture isn't being compressed and heated where high compression would cause preignition, etc.



I am starting to think ULSD May be causing injectors to stick and add to much fuel. And if the injector stuck as it was adding fuel before TDC it would destroy the piston or rod or the weakest link.
Injector wear or sticking with ULSD would be an engineering/design defect, all modern engines are/should be using parts designed for ULSD and parts that fail prematurely because of ULSD are a poor design. Can't blame ULSD for that because that is the only fuel we have available, we have no choice but to use it and mfrs need to design around that requirement. You don't hear of the HD trucks having these issues, so clearly it's not impossible to build durable parts that cope fine with ULSD.



Also correct me if I read this wrong
But I thought deleting the EGR would raise EGTs. I thought the EGR would lower temps but In turn plug the intake with soot.
Reburning some of the exhaust gases was a way to lower EGTs ???
EGR is not to reduce EGTs, the function of EGR is to reduce cylinder combustion temps under high pressure which reduces the production of NOx.
 
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I will admit the failures make me a little nervous but I currently have 88k on mine with "knock wood" , never an issue , never uses any oil between changes and has only been on a diet of Dexos 2 5w/30 from the dealer , the only mod is a BMS catch can and I run Optilube yellow with every tankful, I have an extended warranty to 100k , I was thinking of getting rid of it before the 100k warranty expires but the truck drives and runs really well , has been on many roadtrips and has never let me down .
Hope I don't jinx it, but I don't recall any high-mileage engine failures. They seem to all let go with less than 50k miles on them which would make me think these are defects that take some time to show up and not really random failures. I would think with 88k you'd be in the clear. I hope. :grin2:
 

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That’s why the HP and Torque are so high
It’s not built by GM
The limiting factor for our trucks is the transmission, the 6L50 is only rated for 500Nm which is 369lb-ft...which is the peak torque the 2.8 puts out.
 

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This a bit off topic but still related to build quality.

I was watching a video and in the comment sections one poster mentioned that most of the issues in QC complaints were coming from owners of Colorado built in Mexico and that the Missouri plants QC was much better with minimal issues.

Has any one ever heard this before?


Not sure where they got that info. Never built in Mexico.




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so let me get this straight ... you asked the dealership service department to send your "faulty injector" to the business that you used to tune your vehicle for more power/torque than the OE factory build? That seems like a good way to have GM weasel out of paying for any repairs, but I could be wrong. I wonder if anyone ever has any luck with the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act when it comes to vehicles? My 2009 G8 had a failure, which is known to exist, and admitted by GM, yet they WILL NOT honor any warranty if even so much as an aftermarket air filter was used! That's BS in my opinion
GM won't cover the engine repairs under warranty anyway, the tune guaranteed that. The dealer/GM would have checked the ECM calibration, seen it wasn't factory, and told the owner they're SOL. So there should never have been any expectation that GM would cover any engine repairs that could be linked to the tune. This has been GM policy for years.
 
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jasaero isn’t the OP. The OP is having their engine replaced under warranty.


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